Wednesday, August 12, 2009

The Mystery of the Missing Sierra Madre City Council SCAG Member

Well, it certainly is a mystery. Our supposed City Council representative to SCAG, Joe Mosca, claims he isn't our City Council representative to SCAG. Right there at a televised City Council meeting! Of course, it says that Joe Mosca is our SCAG guy on his biography page on the Sierra Madre City website. Here is how it reads:

Joe Mosca: He serves as the City Council Liaison to the Sierra Madre Community Services Committee and the Sierra Madre Elementary School. Additionally, he represents the community as a member of the San Gabriel Valley Council of Governments, League of California Cities, Environmental Quality Committee, Los Angeles Metro San Gabriel Valley Governance Council, Southern California Association of Governments (SCAG) ...

Now if you go to the SCAG site, and then to the Council of Human and Economic Development (CEHD) page, you will see that Joe Mosca is listed as a member of SCAG! And it was updated on 7/20/09. And then, as was noted at last night's City Council meeting, if you go to the minutes for the CEHD you will notice that Joe hasn't been to a meeting there in quite some time.

But wait, we are now in that most murky of labyrinths known as (cue the Halloween music) Regional Governments. Notice, if you will, that Joe is listed on SCAG's site not as being a City Councilman from Sierra Madre, but rather as a member of the San Gabriel Valley Council of Governments, aka SGVCOG. And he is also listed on our City site as being our boy at the SGVCOG. So, can it be that while he represents us at the SGVCOG, he is a member of SCAG as a representative of the SGVCOG? And that rather than representing our interests at SCAG, he represents those of the SGVCOG, where he is our representative? Are you following this? And isn't SCAG supposed to be made up exclusively of elected officials from cities like ours? So how can he be a member of SCAG as a member of the SGVCOG?

If Joe is representing us at SCAG as a member of SGVCOG, an organization which supposedly represents us, doesn't that make him our SCAG representative once removed? And think about this one. When he sits on the CEHD board, the committee responsible for our RHNA numbers, does he do his work from the perspective of Sierra Madre, or the San Gabriel Valley COG?

Anyway, if Joe is listed on the SCAG site as being a member of the SGVCOG, it should behoove us to go to the meeting minutes for that organization and see if he has been showing up at their meetings, right? After all he is our official Sierra Madre City Council member there at least. So here is his SGVCOG attendance:

Sept 18, 2008 - absent
Oct 16, 2008 - absent
Nov 20, 2008 - present
Jan 15, 2009 - absent
Feb 15, 2009 - absent
March 19, 2009 - absent
April 21, 2009 - present
May 21, 2009 - absent
(Previous to Sept '08 Joe is not listed as
being a member. Beyond May 2009 the
minutes have yet to be updated.)

So there you go. If Joe represents the SGVCOG at SCAG/CEHD, he's stiffing them badly because he doesn't go to the meetings. And at SGVCOG, where he represents us, his attendance record isn't a whole lot better. Apparently meeting boy doesn't show up for anything very much.

One other kind thought. While Bill Coburn and the rest of his ilk are running around town proclaiming that our membership in SCAG grants us such tremendous benefits, it turns out that the Sierra Madre City Councilman who belongs to SCAG, and whose name is listed as a member there, by his own admission doesn't represent us. But instead Joe represents the interests of some other guys. It just keeps getting stranger and stranger ...

Anyway, a lot of other stuff went on at last night's City Council meeting as well. Some of it pretty remarkable. Consider this to be an open thread and share your thoughts.


  1. I watched the meeting last night on TV.
    Joe seemed especially "snarky" last night at the end of that meeting.
    He doesn't come across as a very nice person.

  2. So Joe is a member of SCAG, but he's not OUR member of SCAG? So that means it's OK that he doesn't show up to SCAG's meetings? Strange little moral universe he lives in.

  3. Maybe we'll get lucky as a community and Joe will also stop showing up for council meetings.

    I certainly hope he is foolish enough to run for reelection. I'm going to lie straight to his face (like he did to me) and tell him that he certainly has my vote and then do what is right and vote against him.

  4. Joe said it was a guy from Arcadia who represented Sierra Madre at SCAG. Huh?
    A guy from Arcadia speaks on our behalf?

  5. So according to the meeting last night Joe is not our SCAG member, so we are not in SCAG, because nobody else is Sierra Madre's SCAG member either, so we pay membership dues to not be represented in SCAG. We pay, but we don't go. Help Tattler, cause this doesn't make sense.

  6. Except for Councilmember Watts the entire group was playing "Roll Over and Play Dead". Thank you Mr. Wattts for you were the only one standing up for the citizens of the city. Zimmerman where was the lot size that used to be so important? Is the mayor being quiet because the city may have the chance to purchase the lot on the west ridge and she doesn't want to upset the boat? Both John and Joe were quiet on just about everything which is totally out of character for both of them. They usually ramble on forever and say nothing.

    Watch out Stonehouse and Lillano residents you are about to be steam-roller over. The council received their marching orders from Levin in closed session.

    Alverno residents you have been had. The city should have told you what was up. It has been on their agenda since June. The council will give the school what it wants for 2 reasons: 1. It uses the Villa for meetings and the Library fundraiser. The council will not bite the had that feeds it. 2. The city wants the school to be sucessful so a developer does not get the property. So you residents are just collateral damage. The school will get the Villa Parties and Filming. For years the city could have enforced its codes but has chosen not to. Alvernos CUP is and always has been for a day school. Not a film business or site rental for events and weddings. Nothing will change. I feel very sad for you guys. Read Alverno's Master Plan. It is posted on the city site. The plan address how they plan to use the villa and how the city has a use agreement with them. That little stunt should be a wakeup call to everyone. You must stay on top of things you care about.

    Is the Mayor playing both sides now? Bamburger, one of the biggest dirts and a nasty man is named to help with the moment of inspiration??? What's up with that??? I don't usually agree with Joe, but that sould be a council decission not the mayor's.

    Why wasn't any thing said about SCAG being yanked off the agenda? What is going on at city hall? Is Elain Aguilar the Master?

    Looks like the new Senior Commissioner is a buddy of the mayor. She is married to an old mayor. Why not some new blood?

    Those were my impressions of the meeting.

  7. Been there, done thatAugust 12, 2009 at 9:06 AM

    About Stoned Crater:

    Developer Domain. People who live around undeveloped land better watch their backs.

    The vultures circled us for years & now they have surely landed & got their talons in us.

  8. DS 63, thanks for the interesting post.
    I think you give Sandy Levin too much power. In fact at one point she said the role of the attorney & staff was to carry out the will of the council. The real thugs in the room were those cheerful salespeople from Capital Source. Did you hear the big cheese say they have assets of xxxxbillion? xxx billion, and don't think for a moment that they won't spend x billion to complete their rape of our hillsides.
    I was watching at home and the camera was often on the CS Cheese and his Susan Whori lawyer, and the dude wouldn't shut up to her. He certainly wasn't listening to anyone speak from the public.
    So Dragon Slayer, I wish you could slay this dragon. I'm afraid the city is faced with the original problem, millions of dollars later. acquiese, follow the laws about private property or we'll be sued into LA County oblivion.
    That's why the council of 2004 made such a grievous error.
    They had to stand tough at that point, defend the HMZ that was in place at the time. I'm not sure we really have many alternatives now - a lot of legal mumble jumble has gone down.
    There were some small victories too. Those matter when you're dealing with practiced liars like the development crowd.

  9. StoneHouse Folks. Don't go for the tree easement.
    Once the property is sold and the homes are built there is NOTHING to stop the owners from cutting down trees. Insist the developer deed that property (their tree easement) to you, the Lilano residents. Change the property line. Taht way you can be incharge of the trees and protect them.

  10. 9:22, what the Stonehouse people, and the Alverno people, need to do is pool their money together & hire lawyers. Or else move. The city won't lift a finger to help them.

  11. So Joe works on our RHNA numbers as a SCAG/CEHD committeeman. but does so as
    someone representing the San Gabriel
    Valley COG. But the reason he is on this
    RHNA board is because he is a member of
    COG, whose meetings he blows off? Pull
    his ticket and he loses both. Time we
    clipped this snotty punk's wings.

  12. One thing you know when Joe is involved,
    it is going to be c-o-m-p-l-i-c-a-t-e-d.

  13. Dragon Slayer. The City Council and Mr. Watts told Capital Source to come back with more changes. Why don't you withold judgment until the Council actually votes to approve or reject a final settlement plan.

    Your snide remark about Zimmerman is also misplaced. I'm keeping score and he has yet to "sell out" ever. And, I don't consider his telling Capital Source that he appreciates concessions it made including the creation of a wildlife corridor, installation of a tree screen re-siting homes, open-space covenants etc etc a "sell out."

    I do agree with you, however, that Mariannne should not have made Bamburger responsible for the moment of inspiration without Council approval first.

  14. Dear readers, is image so important that
    a man would invest himself with an
    honorific he did not earn? Does one feel that by usurping
    SCAG without attending their meetings
    it will give him gravitas he feels he does
    not possess? Scandalous I say!
    Yours Truly, "Colonel" Harlen Sanders

  15. Was the mayor set up? The SCAG item is removed suddenly from the agenda and Joe's suddenly claims he is not our rep?

  16. If that was the only defense No Show Joe had to offer on his not showing up to regional meetings, then he's even dumber than I thought. His excuses sounded like an 11 year old.

  17. Yeah, Fed Up, I was wondering the same thing.
    Maybe the Dirts actually implemented a strategy on this one.
    The Tattler has been writing about Joe & SCAG for some time, with no Dirt bombs about it. Maybe they were playing possum.

  18. A moment of "inspiration" by who!The choice is obscene,monstrous as well as horrifying...obviously a Bone Thrown To The Dogs.

  19. Regarding council people, you really have to think what you would do in their situation. I would probably want to tie up the developers and drop 'em off in Arcadia, but ya can't.
    Ms. Shuster was right. Carter and Stonehouse are just a tragedy for the town. The council has to pick through the rubble and salvage what they can.
    And by the way, whoever posted that John B. didn't talk a lot, missed the 15 minuter past the middle of the meeting, or like so many of us, has an automatic mute on JB's vocal stylings.

  20. Joe Mosca does belong to SCAG. Please click on the cites in this article. All the info is laid out quite nicely.

  21. 10:36, chillax a bit. The Mayor said it was going to be all kinds of groups represented, all kinds of religious bodies. Hamburger will rustle up a Buddhist, a Muslim - probably not a Wiccan tho'.
    I think the Mayor wants the "moment of inspiration" or whatever it is, to have some meaning.
    I'll give this - it did seem like Joe actually had an idea and a reaction. Possible? Probably not. Maybe Hamburger told him earlier...

  22. Fed Up:
    Mayor MacGillivray is NEVER "set up" and never will be. Neither will Kurt Zimmerman or Don Watts.
    Joe flat out lied. He is in deep trouble.
    He keeps making one dumb mistake after another.
    His "order of the fly" secret meeting to make himself mayor, FAILED.
    Joe and the other half of his entry, Matt Bosse's colossal blunder of not naming the WW2 vets as parade marshals, depriving us of having authentic military bands perform in the 4th of July parade......BIG MISTAKE.
    Their other scam....get Pam Kelly of the Civic Club to use their private email list to email residents to show up at Joe and Matt's "parade" with a SAVE THE LIBRARY protest, using children holding library cards up.....Mosca and Bosse's pal Stockly took credit for that FAILURE, but of course, I believe Matt and Joe thought of that dumb idea, probably got help from John Buchanan.
    As for Mayor MacGillivray naming Bamberger to give blessing to the council or whatever.....never underestimate the "fine Italian hand" of MacGillivray. Hey Mosca, ever hear of the saying "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"? LOL
    I repeat........these council members, Zimmerman, Watts and Mayor MaryAnn....are NEVER SET UP. They do the settin' up!
    Keep researching and posting the truth, Sir Eric Maundry........everyone re-read today's on the them.
    It's all there, and it's very clear. Joe, as usual lied.
    What an idiot!

  23. Rather than Bamberger who represents a tiny Christian sect,let go ecumenical!Each week invite a representative from the various religions to give the"moment"Here we could hear from speakers of Bible,Torah,al-Quran,Sutras,Bhagavad-Gita,Tau te Ghing,Siddhanta,Kojiki and Wicca for a start.

  24. The council meetings run long enough. If you want to be inspired go to a different church each week. I am sure you will be welcomed everywhere. If these guys must speak. Keep it to less than 1 minute. Don't waste everyone's time.

  25. Just buy any "Hallmark" card at random and have J.Bu. read it (he likes to talk) before every meeting starts, because Jesus, Bhudda, Gaya, Yaweh et al don't give a rats azz about Sierra Madre.

    P.S. I did hear Jesus was a little miffed his building was too high.

  26. To the point..9:45 and 11:07...He lied again for all to see and hear...COG and's documented my lad ..watching to see you attempt to slither away from this whopper!

  27. I was pleased to see a nice lady like Nina Bartolia named to the Senior Commission.
    I don't know Nina personally, but do know a few of her neighbors, who speak very highly of her.
    We need good people to help the seniors with their issues.
    I'm quite pleased with the people the council is putting on Commissions......I haven't been in the past, but there finally are those who represent the folks, not special interests or their own weird ego trips.

  28. Wish the Senior Commission would say "we really don't need a coordinator at $65K a year.

  29. show me someone joe hasn't lied to, and i'll show ya somemone he's never met.

  30. Why not the old way, one minute of silence..and get on with it!

  31. DS63 @ 9:04
    The residents around Alverno do not have to be "had" if you good people would help right this wrong by writing to the City Council in opposition to these underhanded tactics of Alverno and apparently our City Staff. At the very least the matter should be continued to a date that isn't right after Labor Day weekend when a lot of folks are away settling kids at college.

    Elaine Aguilar said it was up to the applicant Alverno to grant a continuance or not.

    Since when does an applicant control the City Council agenda and whether a matter can be continued. I cannot find on Municipal Code Section that would allow Alverno to call the shots on this nor one that would prevent our City from continuing that hearing so that all those neighbors could receive proper notice.

    By the way, according to the applicant's TUP application (which is NOT posted on the City website) it appears that Alverno met with the City Attorney before cooking up this TUP application scheme, which effectively "papers over" years of illegally using the Villa for an ongoing business in violation of Alverno's CUP.

    According to a letter submitted with the Alverno TUP application signed by Ann Gillick (Alverno's principal), "As requested by City Staff, [Alverno] is submitting this TUP application as an interim planning measure to be in effect during the period of time that the City is processing the amendment to the existing Conditional Use Permit for the school . . . ."

    The letter goes on to say:

    During the processing of the school's conditional use permit, the issue of the use of the Villa for private events was raised by certain neighbors who live adjacent to the school. After discussions with the City staff and City Attorney, the school feels it is best to separate out the two distinct uses of the Villa for the purposes of clarity. AHS will continue to process the amendment to the [School's] Conditional Use Permit."

    It sounds to me like the City Staff and City Attorney cooked up a scheme with the school to avoid enforcing our City's Municipal Code. Check out SM Muni Code Section 17.56.010 "Nonconforming use limits. While a nonconforming use exists on any lot, no additional use may be established thereon, even though such use would be a conforming use."

  32. oiy veh, you forgot the best and FIRST, JUDIASM!!

    Jesus walked and talked and died as a Jew. Let's get a Rabbi, also. How could you forget who Jesus really was?

    tch, tch!!

  33. You people against Alverno amaze me!
    Would you prefer a hideous new development on that beautiful site?
    I think this is more about certain "leaders" of yours being atheists, against all the religious institutions.
    You're all the same people who never helped us win Measure V. You didn't give a damn about the downtown or our effort to save it. Most of you wouldn't even put our signs for YES on V in your yards, you didn't care about us.
    You should expect as much from those of us volunteers who did save Sierra Madre from the DSP and Bart Doyle's dirts.

  34. Once again the "poor underdog Christian" that everyone is against is telling YOU what to do while somehow knowing what YOU didn't do a la measure V. Did the talking snake tell you this or did your sage shrub in your backyard burst into flame and tell you what everyone didn't do.
    Truly, Local Yokel

  35. Hey Hale at 12:38
    I'm not even a Christian.
    We know what you did to help......go write one of your stupid columns for that old bat, Henderson.

  36. And I support Alverno.....Yokel.

  37. I'm sorry, I make it a point not to spar with unarmed people.
    Please forgive me.
    Local Yokel

  38. Does supporting Alverno mean that they do not have to abide by our cities land use laws and should get whatever they want?

  39. Yeah, 12:48, it does.
    City Council needs to do anything and everything they can do to keep that place a school and prevent it from turning into another massive over-development.
    Sorry, local yokel, I didn't read you right, man, but you're still a fool to write for that paper.

    You small little "special interest" group who lives almost in Pasadena, need to get real.
    You will not have a majority of the Sierra Madre voters behind you and you will hopefully not have the City Council behind you.

  40. I don't think the option here is give Alverno everything they want or there will be a housing development. And, I hope the City supports the neighbors' right to live in a residential area without a business operating next door until after 10 p.m. at night. Because if it can happen to the Alverno neighbors, it can happen to anyone in this town for any reason. That means our land use laws aren't worth the paper they are written on.

  41. Everytime I read this blog I am reminded of a Donald Rumsfeld quote.

    "Democracy is messy."

    Which is good. Because dictatorship, though usually tidy, is very boring.

  42. Read the entire Alverno Master Plan, then comment.

  43. Mr Mister - Interesting, since I think the Rummy quote was about Iraq. Does that make City Hall the "Green Zone?"

  44. All we need is more atrocious development.Alverno is probably the last beautiful piece of property left.It's unbelievable that surrounding residents would prefer ratty,shabby and tacky developement which currently is the mode of the current Developement.Look at the communities which surround us..This is what you will get.Junk that they can't move or remains vacant.Let's not forget 1 Carter.We can now only dread what will happen to Stone House.

  45. Demeter, you should know that in addition to running a business. Alverno wants a regulation soccer field within spitting distance of the reflecting pond to the Villa, a gigantic gym and auditorium with warming kitchens on the other side of the Villa that will dwarf it and an outdoor amphitheater. So the Alverno property you are talking about will no longer exist as it does today.

  46. Somehow I don't recall those neighbors up in arms over the Christmas season traffic when Hastings Ranch was in it's heyday. Personally, I'm very happy that Alverno, which has been on that site since before most of the houses in the surrounding neighborhood were built, has been able to secure a revenue source to keep its students and its quality education going for the forseeable future. They don't seem to whine about the Passionist Father's annual BBQ.

  47. NottaCatholic, that is because those events are seasonal not an ongoing business that is impacting neighbors every weekend with noise, traffic, partyers, etc. [And that is in addition to regular school noise and traffic as during school hours as well as noise and traffic from all the extra activities associated with Alverno school and sports fields after school hours - just keep that in mind while you are berating the neighbors.] And, I would venture to guess that the Hastings Ranch and Passionust Father's events were properly permitted - the wedding and event location business that Alverno is running is in violation of its current CUP.

  48. I keep hearing about a regulation soccer field? What does that mean? I've never heard that the school wants to build something that's 100 meters long.

    Also, what's the beef with the school having a soccer field? The Alverno girls soccer team did win the state soccer championship in the prep division last year.

  49. Have you seen the night lights that ended up on La Salle's football field?

  50. I think the point is that the school is overtaxing the neighborhood with too much use. It isn't fair.

  51. Alverno neighbors.
    1)There are rules & regulations you are not aware of. The timing thing has to do with Sate, maybe Federal, law, that once a private property owner puts in an app/request/whatever, a clock starts ticking, and the laws force the city to take action by a set time. It's not discretionary, and it doesn't prove any conspiracy. It proves that the Holy of Holies in our laws are private property rights.
    2)Don't waste your time trying the usual channels. You will need to find an attorney who will help your neighborhood group. Any contact, speeches, letters. emails to city staff is a big waste of time. Actually benefits the opposition because you're waiting for help that will not come. Maybe some council people will listen, but the way to protect your neighborhood is for everybody to chip in for an attorney.
    3) Ignore the fellow residents who don't get that your complaints are legitimate. They won't until it's in their homes.
    4) I gotta say, as a veteran of more than one civic fight here, it would have been nice to have your help before. Nonetheless, I think you're right to fight, and I hope you hire an attorney so that you can have a chance.

  52. don't shoot...i'm only the piano playerAugust 12, 2009 at 2:24 PM

    what'll happen is there will be a party at Alverno and someone will have too much to drink, drive onto the soccer field, fall asleep in his car and then a SMPD officer will shoot him

  53. doesn't the city want to fine the beezus out of residents if they have an illegal party?

    if I lived next to Alverno I'd get together with my neighbors and play loud music the same night as one of these illegal parties and then when the SMPD tickets them and not Alverno - turn around and sue the city

  54. Old Timer, What makes you think that the neighbors around Alverno never supported any other concern or cause in this time. I think you'll find that a great many of them did.

  55. good memory skillsAugust 12, 2009 at 2:29 PM

    Can't quite tell whether this is off topic or not, but did y'all hear Mr. Zimmerman ask the community to come forth with ideas for purchasing Lot #3 on the West Ridge of Crater?
    How about the Mountain Conservancy people, or the Santa Monica Mountain saving people. Or is one lot not enough to interest anyone.

  56. Fresh Thought Said:

    If I'm not mistaken weren't a lot of commenter in here recently railing against the Congregational Church for building a classroom addition without all permits in place? Isn't that a double standard to complain about the Cong and support Alverno's illegal use of its property?

    Worse yet, if the City Council approves a TUP after years of Alverno violating its CUP, and with expansion plans before the City, doesn't that give the Cong a great RLUIPA (or however that Federal Law that Maranatha sued the city under is spelled) claim? Couldn't they use the City's stance on Alverno to argue that the City discriminated between two different religious groups (favoring the Catholics by allowing such disregard for the zoning ordinance and even helping them to skirt the rules while holding the Cong to a stricter standard)?

  57. Are you sure the school asked for lights? Not sure that's even in their master plan.

  58. It isn't in the master plan, but you have a school with a long history of violating its CUP so what is to stop them from slapping up lights once the field is there? The City doesn't even seem to be able to prevent intitutions from illegally building entire buildings across from City Hall.

  59. Stop looking to the city for protection.

  60. The Voice of ReasonAugust 12, 2009 at 2:49 PM

    Excuse me, but isn't the point of City Government to enforce the local laws and effectively administer the town so that they are justly applied to everyone the same way?

  61. Voice of Reason, let me know how that works out for you. Maybe you'll have better luck than other neighborhoods have had...

  62. Hey Fresh Thought at 2:36 don't start a war between the Catholics and the Protestants!

  63. The Voice of ReasonAugust 12, 2009 at 3:00 PM

    2:52 I sense some battle scars - do tell.

    Are you saying that good ol' political action is dead in the City of Sierra Madre and the Alverno neighbors can do nothing but sue the City? I hope there is a more positive way forward for them.

  64. Councilman Zimmerman suggested purchasing that part of the west ridge that would have the worst view impact. And, he was on the subcommittee that negotiated the concessions the City obtained including the wildlife corridor, the tree screen, the open space easement and so on. Not sure why Dragon Slayer decided to blast him.

    Also, I'm glad Watts piped up last night, but for the first two years of his term, he recused himself whenever the subject of One Carter came up. Back then, Kurt was the only Council Member defending the hillsides. Give him a break.

  65. Fresh Thought Said:

    I'm not starting the war, I'm just pointing out the double standard.

  66. That's right, 3:00.
    I think if we had more people like Zimmerman on the councils earlier, we would never have had the total losses that we have.
    Watts was great last night, but he hasn't been around for 99% of the hillsides development stuff.
    If there's a deer left anywhere on Stonehouse, it's probably thanks to Zimmerman.

  67. Fresh Thought Said:

    And the brilliant ammunition the City of Sierra Madre is about to hand the Cong if they treat Alverno's illegal use differently from the Cong's illegal building.

  68. FT, what do you mean? The building stands.

  69. Yeah, the Alverno neighbors can wait until the Congregational Church sues the city. But I guess that doesn't get the Alverno neighbors anywhere does it?

    About One Carter
    Purchasing One Carter probably isn't going to happen if the property is split up like that. Besides the City shot itself in the foot by upping the value of the property when it granted entitlements for building houses. Most conservancy money is spoken for six ways to Sunday. We would need to raise the money through a tax or bond and that isn't likely to happen now.

  70. Fresh Thought said:

    Well I think the City is still dealing with how they are going to allow the Cong to use that building. The Cong also wants to build a gym on that site too.

  71. Poster 3:13. It's more like a 400+ seat auditorium.

  72. OK, let me get this straight. Alverno is a school and has been a school for decades. Notwithstanding its status as school, however, its neighbors do not want its students to have their own athletic field or gym.

    Reminds me of those families living next to the softball fields who were complaining about girls playing SOFTBALL.

  73. 3:52, you must not have heard the complaints. They are talking about constant after hours noise, lights, traffic. I don't live around there, but I know the drill. Alverno makes money by renting itself out and then does a sloppy job of monitoring the conditions that would make the neighborhood more livable. So maybe it doesn't bother you to have a film crew coming or going at 1 am, or a party that gets drunkenly too loud, waking up your kids, & giving you other kinds of headaches.
    The neighbors are justified to complain.
    The track record in our city is that anything they say will fall on deaf ears.

  74. 3:13 & 3:38, last I heard the Planning Commission put the kibosh on the Cong's auditoriumstadium thing, on the grounds of not enough parking and undue hardship on the shops and offices next to them.

  75. "voice of reason" one of the sock puppets Glenn Lambdin used to use on
    There is more than one DIRT posting on here today. I can smell you all.

    Look, people. The Cong Church is in DOWNTOWN SIERRA MADRE........the downtown Sierra Madre that is protected by Measure V. Thanks to Kurt Zimmerman and Don Watts and SMRRD.The Congs willfully violated Measure V. and took liberties with the planning dept. Alverno is on the border line of Sierra Madre and Pasadena to the north west. It's apples and oranges and you people who object to Alverno know it.
    Most traffic there is via North Michillinda.

  76. I agree with Old Kentucky. Alverno and the Cong are apples and oranges, or apples and vegetables.

    Alverno = small soccer field and small gym, if permitted

    Cong church = giant gymnasium and new multi-story school, if permitted.

    Alverno = dozens of people during Summer weekends

    Cong church = hundreds of people every weekend.

  77. I watched most of the City Council meetings. I've heard people in this town complaining about just about everything to the City Council. And, I been hearing these complaints for years.

    But until Alverno decided to obtain a temporary use permit, I never heard anybody complaining to the Council about the schools plans to expand or noisy parties.

  78. Sept 22, 2009 there is a Public Hearing for the Cong Church...that is unless it magically get pulled over the weekend.

  79. Is it just me or is this Alverno debate being manufactured by a handful of sock puppets? There's several posters today that are clearly attorneys pretending that they're not really attorneys.

    Reminds me of the anti-measure V campaign.

  80. Glad to see Judy speaking up again.

  81. Thought Sir Eric's article was about Joe Mosca's SCAG affiliation. How did the comments veer so off topic?

  82. 5:59, did you see those Alverno neighbors get up at public comment? They seemed sincere to me. Not manipulated or lawyered up. In fact, they need to lawyer up - or sell.

  83. Poster 6:14, it was the pesky sock puppets. I'm afraid they will be hijacking the comments section from now on.

  84. 6:14, guess you didn't read the article all the way through....look for the last sentence.

  85. That offensive urban sprawl oozing from the Cong Church can not be compared to the lovely landscape surrounding Alverno.This property has always been an asset to the community in sharp contrast to the contentious Cong church and its surroundings.

  86. 6:16, there were a lot of issues last night besides Joe. That little pip-squeak has plenty of comments. The hillsides developers were up there, and yes, Alverno. Those folks have a right to ask for the councils consideration without anybody going off about sock puppets.
    Besides, I always figure once the comments are past 50 or so, Sir Eric has hooked some Dirts.

  87. 6:16. Read the other posts today. Appears they already lawyered up. There's veiled threats of litigation against the City based on disparate treatment of Catholics and Protestants and a reference to a potential lawsuit that might be brought under a federal law protecting freedom of religion.

    Note to sock puppet JDs -- be a little more subtle next time.

  88. Joe Mosca needs to be called out on his big lie last night! Mayor MacGillivray, Joe Mosca needs to be relieved of his liaison duties.
    We are getting sick of this fraud.
    Ever since Mosca and that other liar, Harriet S. Henderson came into Sierra Madre, they have been spreading trouble and grief like a terrible disease.

  89. So can it be Joe Moca is denying - for the sake of politics - that he belongs to SCAG? Even though he obviously does? Or did he just panic Tuesday night...

  90. Residents' Research Team participantAugust 14, 2009 at 8:21 AM

    Let's take a look at old agendas from April or May, see when the liaisons were appointed, and then look at the meeting online or in the library & see if we can clear up this little mystery...

  91. It's on the agenda for June 9th, 2009.
    Anybody got the meeting handy?

  92. Residents' Research Team participantAugust 14, 2009 at 8:47 AM

    Thanks 8:45!
    That meeting is online at KGEM:
    But you can't fast forward & it looks like the liaisons were appointed at the end of the meeting.
    Anybody got the time & patience to get this?

  93. RRT, that link doesn't work.

  94. Residents' Research Team participantAugust 14, 2009 at 8:55 AM

    Go to the city website & click on SMTV3 - Meeting Archive

  95. Well this is funny - they do not read the list of liaisons out loud.
    City Manager said the list was available at the back of the chambers.
    So no solution there.
    However, at 3 hours & 15 minutes into the meeting, John Buchanan tries his hardest to stall off the General Plan committee...

  96. It's all kind of moot. Joe is a member of SCAG, and he's listed on their website as a member. He's also a member of COG, which is affiliated with SCAG. He fibbed Tuesday night because he was on the spot. You could almost hear SCAG saying, "Et tu, Brutus?"

  97. Yeah Enzo, but it wouldn't hurt to have two vids of him, one getting the liaison assigned & the other denying it.

  98. That's true. Didn't think of that. That's why I'm Enzo and not Frank Sinatra.

  99. Kind of weird, Joe hasn't changed his bio page on the Sierra Madre website. Still says he "represents" Sierra Madre at SCAG. I suspect the reason is that, as the SGVCOG rep to SCAG, if he said he didn't serve Sierra Madre at SCAG, then he'd have to admit he represents another organization there. And that might not rest well with all the supporters he imagines he has.

    Of course, what Joe really wants to do is serve Sierra Madre TO SCAG. Preferably parboiled and shovel ready.

  100. You got it Bad Karma.
    I confess. it's taken me a while to actually get the byzantine sense of the thing, the COG link to SCAG that allows for distance from SCAG.
    These kinds of politics make me feel slow witted.


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