Saturday, January 16, 2010

Josh Moran. Who Is This Dude?

So there is this rather puzzling quote allegedly posted by Josh Moran on the old Downtown Dirt site. I've been kicking it around for most of the day, and I'm still not quite sure what is being advocated here. Of course, Downtown Dirt.com no longer exists, but you can still find this chestnut on the now classic Sierra Madre Radicals and Assorted Characters website. Scroll down to the article entitled "Boycott Called On Sierra Madre Businesses."

"... most of the businesses that advertise in the Weekly, or better yet Weakly (like that one?) have no idea that a boycott is afoot. Simply not using someone's services without saying anything to them will do no good. If it is to be effective, you have to get the word out, otherwise people will continue to advertise like they always have. So we've got to write letters or make phonecalls to all of the advertisers letting them know that should they continue to advertise in the Weakly, a large group of concerned citizens will not use their services."

Like I said, I'm not sure I fully grasp what is being said here. Was the perpetually dowdy Sierra Madre Weekly engaged in something unpleasant or unkind back there around 2006, and a concerned Josh and others turned to boycotting some of our downtown businesses as a way of teaching them a lesson? Seems very similar to tactics used against the Mount Wilson Observer a year or so later. With business conditions being what they are today, I'm not sure boycotting downtown businesses would be much appreciated. And you'd certainly be walking on the fighting side of Bill Coburn if you attempted that now, that's for sure. No more Friday Night Live for you, bubby!

Now some have told me that Josh was very much a DSP guy back then, and he made some rather eccentric appearances at the podium at City Hall around March 2007 to make his passion for condos and mixed-use development known. We hope to have those videos shortly, along with some transcripts. When gauging the mettle of a candidate, The Tattler leaves no stone unturned.

Anyway, the final candidate on the proto-development side of the Sierra Madre political firmament has now thrown his bicycle beanie into the ring. A last minute scramble got him there to be sure, and you can only wonder how many people were asked during the lengthy process that ended at Josh Moran. And apparently even here there was a last minute glitch that had to be overcome. It appears that Mr. Moran, who I'm sure has spent considerable time in this town, was actually registered to vote in Monrovia. And you just can't run for City Council in Sierra Madre if where you lay your sleepy head down at night is Monrovia. Much less voting there. So carpetbags were packed, registrations remedied, and now we have yet another candidate in the running for Sierra Madre's favorite TV show, The Tuesday Night Fights. A candidate whose official current residency in this town can still be measured in hours.

So apparently our Mr. Moran used to sell houses in Sierra Madre. And that is "used to" since his license to work in that profession appears to have been allowed to expire. Real estate is a respectable profession for many, and most in that game do dress well. And you can still go to the old Webb Martin "personnel" pages to look for insight into Mr. Moran's business character. There you will find a series of statements to consider. Two in particular seemed notable to me. The first states, "Complete and total honesty, with our transactions and with my promises." But then farther down the page this claim is made: "I will do anything I can to put together a deal." Somehow these two sentences clash. Perhaps it is in their unfortunate juxtaposition? Or maybe it is some sort of flagrant feng shui violation? Not quite sure.

But it looks like there is something of a lacunae in our Moranic knowledge. Despite some widely held opinions, it appears that Josh Moran is no longer a real estate agent. At least according to the CA.gov site. (And believe me, I was all set up to explore that "recusing" issue this evening for you.) And the Webb Martin page is just something left over from before that concern was gobbled up by Dickson Podley, a company that does not list Josh amongst its elect. Which means Josh's information on the departed Webb Martin site is just more internet detritus, and that he is no longer doing "anything he can" to sell your house. Whatever that might have meant.

So where to look for information? Facebook, of course. It has never let me down yet. The biggest sheet of informational internet fly paper ever devised. And what we find there does offer some fascinating insight into Sierra Madre's newest City Council candidate. You can link to it here.

Now the first thing you will notice upon visiting this site is that much of Josh's information is locked. That is, unless he has identified you as a "friend," you cannot view all of what is available on his Facebook page. So that is unfortunately a door partially closed to us. But still there is a list of what Josh claims to be a "fan" of, and certainly some insight can be found in that. And a couple of items did jump out.

The first is the movie Hangover. This film is all about the wild adventures of a three guys and what happens to them when they go to attend a bachelor party in sinful Las Vegas. And it looks like the story line has them getting so stoned that none of them can remember what they did that night. Apparently what happened during the time a temporary liquid lobotomy erased their memories was not the stuff of respectable middle class decorum. Oh no indeed. And now they have to track down the terrible truth. You can check out some footage from this film here.

The other item that seemed both revealing and intriguing was Josh's citing of Chopperhead Magazine. As you can see by its MySpace link this is a publication that likes big bikes, hard rock, and bawdy scantily clad babe-age. And not necessarily in that order. Chopperhead also has a Facebook page (link), and it definitely has that party animal kind of feel.

So that's as far as our investigation has gone. At least for this posting. Josh now needs to get his nominating signatures together, fill out all those happening forms, and hand them over to our City Clerk no later than close of business Tuesday. With Monday being the Martin Luther King holiday a one day extension has been added. Rumor has it Josh will be cranking up something of a slacker campaign, riding his bike up to Mary's Market and chilling under the trees with some Red Bulls and whoever stops by to groove on his political vibe. Leisure seems to be in ample supply for our Josh.

When more information becomes available we will do all we can to get it quickly posted here on The Tattler. Sierra Madre's #1 News Source!

93 comments:

  1. This is a joke,right?Maybe for comic relief!

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  2. Unbelievable!
    Any reasonably intelligent person would never consider voting for this Moran creature.

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  3. Can we say "bottom of the barrel?" Joe Mosca should be ashamed of himself. Such cynicism!

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  4. I am honestly failing to see what point any of this has made... the guy likes one of the most popular movies of the year and a magazine about motorcycles. I bet he owns pants and eats breakfast too, what does that tell you?

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  5. Why are you assuming this is bad, Woody?

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  6. As we come to the Sierra Madre elections it is imperative that all candidates running for City Council maintain an ethical standard.
    Under no circumstances should any business in the downtown or canyon areas be pressured into displaying signs or sponsoring any particular candidate. These business's (and their professional services such as doctors etc) serve the entire community of Sierra Madre regardless of political involvement.
    To misuse them for political gain is totally unacceptable.

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  7. Calling for a boycott of businesses advertising in a paper because you don't like the opinion of one of its reporters (in this case Katina Dunn) is pretty telling. The bullying of the DSP crowd a few years back was reprehensible. And apparently this Josh was one of its enforcers.

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  8. Since there is no word from Josh on what he mean, or what he was referring to (3 years ago mind you...) I am failing to see what he has done that is objectionable, let alone unethical...

    He expressed an opinion on an issue in the past, that's all we have at this point.

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  9. Ah yes, the 'words have no meaning' defense. He wasn't talking about boycotting Sierra Madre's businesses, he was asking for an aspirin.

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  10. 9:09

    I'll tell you what is objectionable about Josh.
    Using Mary's Market as his campaign headquarters for starters.
    Stay tuned....there will be more exposed, I'm sure.

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  11. Owning property as a condition of running for a city council seat is not required, but being a resident and registered to vote in the city you wish to represent as an elected official certain is. So, now that Josh has returned to the fold, the city which he grew up in and which he wishes to represent as an elected official, where does he live? With his mother?
    Just asking?

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  12. Not as if it should matter, but he lives in the "upper" canyon.

    And Woodward at 8:07am...i have seen him wearing pants that i'm sure he owns. Now as for eating breakfast? I'll get back to you on that one :) although one time at my work he took 2 pieces of bread and stuffed "chips" (uh "french fries" for the American readers) inside of it...there may have been some mayonaise too...or was it HP sauce? I'll do some more investigating...

    HAPPY SATURDAY EVERYONE!!!! I've missed you all and just an FYI, i work tonight so come on by for a yummy Belgian Beer and a $5 Pubdog with carmelized onions and fries!!!!! YUMMY!!!!

    Lisa :)

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  13. It is disturbing seeing a clearly pro-development candidate (which has been revealed thanks to Sir Eric's research), using Mary's Market as his headquarters. This once was a center of liberalism in Sierra Madre, and is well-known for this. But what it looks like, is that Josh Moran is yet another sell-out liberal, representing the interests of the increasingly conservative, liberal bourgeoisie.

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  14. I think it's great that Josh is running. The pro-development crowd needs an unashamed candidate who will honestly say:

    "Let's develop Sierra Madre, make downtown a big booming commercial center. Let's celebrate the McMansions at Carter and Stonehouse, and make those well-heeled newcomers welcome with an economically vibrant town. Let's make sure we meet, nay exceed, the SCAG implemented RHNA numbers, that we fulfill our duty to the state, adhering to SB375, and let's make sure those who own property in the downtown, the various individuals and LLC's, aka Downtown Investors Club, make a profit."

    C'mon, it's better that having Joe & Buchanan do the same thing in a sneaky way. Josh made it very clear during the Measure V campaign what he wanted for Sierra Madre.

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  15. What blows my mind about all of the development hype is that these folks don't seem to understand that the party's over and Elvis has left the building.

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  16. I agree 10:16. The choices are very clear when you have a recently-a-realtor running.
    A concern might be that now Joe will try to define himself as a preservationist in contrast to Mr. Moran.

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  17. Might define himself as a preservationist? What else has Joe ever said? He loves the little people in the little towns.

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  18. Virginia --- guys like Joe and John love to lard their little talks with the imagery of liberal causes and the green movement. But its really just a sales pitch designed to win business for their big money patrons. It's all about money for these guys, nothing else. And somebody made a good point here. At least Josh is straightforward about wanting to turn this town into just another condo filled train and bus station. At least he's honest. Unlike our two BIA snake oil salesmen.

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  19. 10:24 - those are values he holds near and dear to his heart. At least until he's out of our earshot.

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  20. I am looking forward to who leads Josh's parade - who will be his campaign manager, his treasurer, who will canvass for him. Should be a relief for those folks who are hungry to realize a profit - and it'll be nice that they won't have to skulk around behind the scenes.

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  21. It's really pretty simple folks.

    You have three candidates running who will PLEDGE to the voters that they will REPRESENT THE RESIDENTS OF SIERRA MADRE and NOT SPECIAL INTEREST, special interests consist of the BIA, the CAR and special Sacramento interests including political parties. None of these belong in Sierra Madre's city government.

    Mayor Pro-tem Don Watts made a promise to the voters in 2006. He promised he would make sure the DSP didn't happen. The DSP would have destroyed Sierra Madre as we know it.
    Don Watts KEPT HIS PROMISE.....HE DID NOT BETRAY US.

    John Crawford/aka Sir Eric Maundry will pledge to you all in his blood if need be, that he will follow in the tradition of Kurt Zimmerman, Don Watts and MaryAnn MacGillivray, he is committed to not allowing Sacramento to take over our town.
    You all know his position on all our crucial issues.
    John Crawford will NOT BETRAY YOU

    Pat Alcorn: Is a woman of the highest integrity and is also committed to preservation of our little town. Pat has been committed to these issues for many years. Most of you know Pat.
    I read her campaign statement and I will support her and vote for her. Pat will not BETRAY you!

    Please support and vote for DON WATTS, JOHN CRAWFORD and PAT ALCORN. Sierra Madre FIRST.
    Don't let Sacramento dictate to our city council.

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  22. My family will vote for Watts, Crawford and Alcorn.

    Joe Mosca betrayed us.

    Josh Moran has told us his agenda. He also is not qualified and Virginia is correct, he should not be using Mary's Market as a campaign headquarters.

    Nancy Walsh is a nice enough lady, who speaks at public comment as directed by John Buchanan, another sell out, who betrayed us. Nancy would just be a puppet for Buchanan, as was Enid Joffe.

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  23. Long Term ResidentJanuary 16, 2010 at 1:01 PM

    Any of you who actually go to Mary's Market would know that Josh has been working out of the Market for the past year, which is why his placard is up, because the regulars there joke about being his office.

    So much for Don Watt's eloquent speech about the need for respect and decency in this upcoming election, because you've already started a smear campaign against someone you obviously don't know.

    That is what I find truly UNBELIEVABLE.

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  24. Another long term residentJanuary 16, 2010 at 1:06 PM

    Working in Mary's Market doing what, 1:01?

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  25. also have lived here a long timeJanuary 16, 2010 at 1:10 PM

    1:01. which was the "smear" - that he's a realtor, or a recently expired-licensed one, or that he registered to vote in Sierra Madre a few days before he pulled papers to run for council?
    Or is the smear the questions people have about realtors and conflict of interest matters?

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  26. Let the whining begin. Everyone repeat after me. There is no truth, only smears. Don't think, don't talk, and whatever you do don't vote your interests. May the biggest crybaby win.

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  27. Since when is telling the truth about Josh Moran a smear campaign?

    Here's the truth:

    He registered to vote in Sierra Madre a day or two before he pulled nomination papers to run for office.

    He was a spokeperson for the nastiest and most unprofessional political campaign (i.e., the No on Measure V campaign) to hit this town.

    His name is plastered all over flyers paid for by the No on Measure V campaign that were replete with misleading statements, lies and half-truths.

    Many people in the community are concerned about his potential conflicts of interest if he is elected. And, even if the conflicts do not qualify as violations of the law, do we really want a council member voting on items that could profit a close relative?

    He supposedly lived in this town for 30 or so years, but nobody I know can tell me what he does for a living now.

    3 Years ago he called for a boycott of Sierra Madre businesses that have a hard enough time making a profit because they advertised in our local paper -- a paper which he did not like.

    Not somebody I am going to vote for.

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  28. It is a "smear" if it is unflattering truth about your candidate, otherwise it is the "record." I for one, will vote for a candidate with a record that I respect and that was truthfull from the start: Don Watts. I for one, will vote for a candidate that is devoted to the long-term well-being of Sierra Madre: Pat Alcord. I for one, will vote for the intelligent voice and probing mind: John Crawford.

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  29. Watch out 2:09. All that reasonableness will depress the poster who wants to insist that facts from a good memory are a smear...
    We still don't know what kind of work Mr. Moran is engaged in.

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  30. The problem for Joe Mosca and the Little Joes is that they really have nothing to run on. Joe's biggest accomplishment was his flipping on the people who elected him, which led to lawsuits, the Measure V election, and a recall that came within a couple whiskers of getting on the ballot. So they almost have to run a crybaby campaign. Which, as any student of politics can tell you, is an extremely weak platform to run for reelection on.

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  31. mon oeil, beautifully put.

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  32. Sounds like a good start!!Let the games begin!!!

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  33. Off topic, but has anyone seen a Mountain Views News yet? Still not online.

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  34. Perhaps one of you posters, who supposedly know Mr. Moran, can enlighten us by telling us what he does for a living.

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  35. reasonable and intelligent people do not vote. people vote based on emotion, not researching facts. we need to get the facts to the people of Mary's Market and to everyone in Sierra Madre. People at MM think Josh is a cool person. They do not know or really care about the issues, or the qualifications. JOSH is a regular. so a regular guy would be great on the City Council. Get the thinking?

    someone needs to get up to Mary's and gently inform the lovely people who love Josh....

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  36. Poster 5:41 You're so right. It's that "he seems like a nice guy" sort of thinking that got people like John Buchanan and Joe Mosca elected.

    If you vote for somebody only because he seems nice, you deserve to live in the worst-governed City out there.

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  37. We are dumbed down in America. Look at our terrible education system not only in California, but the rest of the country. People do not read as much as they used to. Television has taken over as culture. People stick their children in front of the TV instead of on their laps to read them a book.This is why we live in terribly goverened cities in America. Those of us who are well read need to help educate others. PLEASE. Just because some wanna be politicians don't read newspapers, , or know geography, or cannot take responsibilty for their oen actions, does not mean that those of us who are well educated cannot help educate others that "nice guys finsh last" because being nice is not what it is all about. Education,
    is about truth and facts. Told over a cup of coffee by the right person at MM would help deflect the "nice people's" common sense.

    Really, no one wants this town to be bulldozed and built with 4 story buildings which will b cold and empty before they are finished. Not even Josh. But he does not get it. All he gets is the money. The right people can enlighten the uneducated.(after all, you and I have already lived in a terribly goverened City, so let's not let it happen again!)!

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  38. Once faithfull readerJanuary 16, 2010 at 8:31 PM

    Wow you sure dug deep into this one John, exposing ALL the ugly truths about someone you have obviously never met, commenting on a movie you obviously have not seen, quoting web sites that are about as relevant today as you will be in April. I don't know this man, don't really care to, but last I heard it's a free country, if he wants to run, you can not stop him, you can expose him or anyone else for that matter. I started reading this blog months ago and found you to be entertaining and thought provoking, now I've come to realize you're just stuck in your own head with very little room for anything else, you lost me son. Adios!

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  39. I've been reading the tattler since it went online and the 8:31 post is easily the dumbest one ever.

    Why can't John comment on somebody he has never met, when that somebody already has a record like Josh Moran's and that somebody is running for office?

    Also, have you met John? If not, aren't you "commenting on a movie you have not seen."

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  40. Last spring I went for a walk in the canyon and stopped at Mary's Market. I over heard Josh's phone conversation. Josh was trying to to convince someone to go for a high interest rate loan. He was trying to explain how his client was being able to borrow money thruogh LIBOR. Josh the financial wizzard didn't seem to understand that LIBOR is the London Interbank Offer Rate. It is the rate that banks charge each other for loans. It is usually in Eurodollars
    Josh....You don't borrow money through LIBOR

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  41. Yes, 8:31 would only like The Tattler if it said nothing. Some guy announces for city office who in the past helped organize a boycott against Sierra Madre retail businesses because he didn't like something that was said in a 16 page street distributed free weekly, and this should not be mentioned? Or discussed as local news? I'm not sure that it was the blog that lost you, son. Sounds to me like you have been lost for a lot longer than that.

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  42. Some dude who sits at a picnic table at Mary's Market trying to peddle scam loans on a cell phone wants to be on our City Council?

    Did Buchanan recruit him?

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  43. The folks who read this blog may never know the truth, but when you fall asleep tonight you must remember this...you're a coward with a second-rate mind.

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  44. Anonymous here is Foxwell, who has been posting over and over and over this morning about how much she hates me. A victim of the Blogger post moderation function I turned on this morning. Some pretty nasty language posted here last night. Had to get out the ammonia and a strong scrubbing brush.

    I've saved Foxwell's posts and will use them for an article someday soon. It's really some amusing stuff.

    Oh, and Ms. Well? Any relation to someone we know with the first name of Mig?

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  45. Moran would be a cancer on the Council.
    Anybody that advocates a boycott on Sierra Madre business owners JUST because Moran disaagreed with the editorial opinion of a newspaper is a highly immature person and he can't be a viable candidate for any serious position of responsiblity representing the interests of Sierra Madre. His call for a boycott was a petty jealous whine because the paper was questioning the downtown development of condos (where he wanted to sell and profit) so I'd never respect his opinion regarding anything to do with Sierra Madre. He's already proven to be a fraud about caring about Sierra Madre when he attempted to cause harm to businesses by boycotting them.

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  46. following Mr. Moran's lead - I'll start boycotting Mary's Market....

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  47. Sanctimonious @9:41,
    1) Calling someone a coward, who has identified himself, while you chose to remain anonymous, is rather droll.
    and
    2) Second rate mind? First rate is probably Kim Ung-yong with his IQ of 210? I'd say that second is pretty darn good. And the proof is in the pudding which the Tattler has served up faithfully for over a year.
    Thank you Sir Eric

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  48. Hold the fort--boycotting is an effective tool only if you have the clout to pull it off. Don't think Josh put the Sierra Madre Weekly out of business. I would like to say I don't plan to boycott the market even though I am pretty sure we will be supporting different candidates. I plan to go there and see if Josh Moran is really actually holding forth with any support group from this seriously intelligent nook of our community. I doubt it. If the market begins to take on the tenor of support for Joe, Josh and Nancy then it will have made a big mistake.

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  49. The Moranians need to boycott The Tattler. It would help continue a tradition established by their candidate for dealing with inconvenient truths. That is, run around town waving your arms in the air screaming bloody murder about anyone who would dare to hold an opinion contrary to yours.

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  50. hey 9:23, was just joking about boycotting Mary' but the realtors who were opposed to free press did in fact approach local business owners who advertised in Katina's paper just because she proposed that a dungeon of condos in downtown wasn't a sound plan for the city including Moran who was a ringleader in advocating a boycott of Sierra Madre businesses

    so, if it is true that Moran is running for council, I'd love to hear him explain his reasoning for advocating a boycott of local businesses because he wanted to profit from condo development

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  51. 9:08, I'm boycotting you. You hurt my feelings.

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  52. If the DIRTS and the downtown investors club were smart, they would run a stealth-DIRT candidate. You know, another Joe Mosca-type that sells himself/herself as a preservationist, but is really pro-condos in the downtown kind of guy or girl.

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  53. 9:08 - Did the realtors do that as individuals, or as an organization? Your post seems to suggest that they did that as an organization or at the very least an organized effort. I don't recall that. Besides, weren't there realtors that advertised in the weekly?

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  54. wait a second, it was mostly a handful of realtors from Webb Martin but Moran was the person writing posts and advocating that businesses that advertised in the paper he disagreed with should be boycotted. i'm pretty sure it was the Weekly that Moran was upset with but mostly Katina because she gave a balanced view on the DSP in which Moran and realtors supported

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  55. The realtors as an organization spoke out on the DSP? I don't remember seeing anything from the sierra madre board of realtors on DSP. I know there were individuals who spoke out about it, but I dont remember any groups other than the dowtown investment people...

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  56. 2:37, the realtors of Sierra Madre were represented as voices for the DSP and against Measure V in an impassioned speech that listed them by name, including Mr. Moran, made by.......Beth Buck.
    You can hear it for yourself if you check out a council disk from the library. It was in Feb, March or Apirl of 2007.
    Quite a speech.

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  57. Beth Buck wasn't a realtor though was she? So she may have referenced individuals who were realtors, but she couldn't speak for them as a group, or on behalf of their organization either. Those would be comments of individuals...

    Could you provide a link to any sort of document, official statement, comment, video clip, anything that shows that the realtors as an organization made on the DSP?

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  58. Wait a second, would you? Sounds like you might have good access to realtor organizations.

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  59. So Beth Buck singing the praise of the realtors in town does not strike you as a fair representation of the Sierra Madre Realtors position on the DSP?
    Somebody better get in a time machine & travel back to tell the Bucks that.

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  60. This blog prides itself on having researched the issues, I am assuming that in this case either the individual who made the comment, or the blog itself has done so. Considering the vast number of posts on this and similar topics, I would expect that there would be such a link

    Otherwise going after an individual organization, campaign, or allowing posts to stand that do so without any background information would be doing what the other side is accused of doing. wouldn't it?

    I thought this blog held itself to a higher standard, which is why i came here...

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  61. No, in fact not at all. If that person isn't a part of an organization, why would it be reasonable to assume she speaks for that organization?

    All organizations (chambers, clubs, unions, trade groups, etc.) have a president, executive officer, public information officer, etc. and those are the people who speak officially on behalf of the organization.

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  62. The issue is that a potential candidate for City Council has advocated boycotting Sierra Madre businesses and argued against free speech (unless it fit his DSP condo commission agenda) - Personally I think the city can't afford a candidate (Moran) who goes all willy nilly nutty and who openly called for boycotting of local businesses.

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  63. Anyone who participated in the discussions of the DSP knows where the local realtors stood on the issues, whether they formed an organizational approach or not, or put out a communique that they all signed, or not.
    Seems to me that wait a second is trying to find a way to criticize the Tattler and having to reach far to do it.
    So where is the claim that kicked this off in the first place? Did someone say that an organization of SM Realtors had a pro DSP parade?

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  64. It sounds like the issue is he had a different opinion on the DSP than some of those on this blog. That is an issue, and that is a fair thing to discuss.

    This candidate reaching out to local businesses and discussing a potential boycott because of a disagreement over the reporting practices of the weekly is essentially no different than this blog's reaction to the MVN. You can't have it both ways.

    And where has he been shown to go willy nilly nutty? Or are you just attacking him because you feel like it?

    As for the comments about the realtors, yes, it was said that they took a position on the DSP. Which is not the case. Individuals took positions, but not the organization as far as anyone can prove.

    If you are going to make claims, you need to have substantiation to those claims, otherwise these are all assumptions and not reporting. If you want to be taken seriously, do so by being factual not inflamatory.

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  65. Gee, I'm sure glad this has all been straightened out. I'm a Realtor and I hope not one more house or condo gets constructed in SM, increased inventory typicaly decreases prices, especially in a depressed market, keep the inventory static,or,if anything, lets tear some old ramshackle fire traps down, clean up the town, especially the canyon.

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  66. VH 10:16! get a grip on your self, throttle back on the treatise on Marys, I've heard Dalton Trumbo used to kick back espressos back while arm wrestling Gloria Steinam while hittin' the pachulie bong, WOW!

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  67. A boycott of small town businesses cannot in any way be compared with a criticism written on a blog. Unless you're out of touch with reality.

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  68. Out of touch with reality and in touch with realtors, those great unsung heroes of our economic collapse.

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  69. I think "wait a second" has done a very good job of making it seem like he or she is really saying something, and has a concrete point to make, while all the while it's just a distraction based on his or her inference of some comment along the way. It is quite cleverly just what he or she is attacking: inflammatory. Could be a interesting argument, if there was any substance to it. As it is, it's just a waste of time.

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  70. Anon @ 8:04, it can be when you are calling for the loss of adjudication of a publication because you disagree with what it prints. Even before this most recent "I can't find any" incident.

    Anon @ 8:09, I think there is plenty of blame to go around on the economic collapse.

    Anon @ 8:18, it was a question that was posed and never answered. Read back through the thread, you'll see the comment.

    Even by the one self-avowed realtor on this thread didn't answer if it was individuals or organizational. Point is there are a lot of unfair attacks being ballied about without any fact checking.

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  71. wait a second's flawed logic explainedJanuary 18, 2010 at 9:16 PM

    "This candidate reaching out to local businesses and discussing a potential boycott because of a disagreement over reporting practices of the weekly is essentially no different than this blog's reaction to the MVN. You can't have it both ways."

    Essentially nonsense, "both ways." Nobody here has threatened to use coercion against local businesses who have advertised in the MVN. Moran threatened local businesses with economic retaliation. The Tattler only laments the inaccurate reporting in the MVN. If Moran had a problem with the reporting in the Weekly in 2006, and wanted to talk about it, there is nothing wrong with that. Where he stepped over the line was through the threatened use of economic retaliation. That was ugly and, frankly, goonish

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  72. "both ways"goes nowhereJanuary 18, 2010 at 9:21 PM

    "It can be said you are calling for the loss of adjudication of a publication because you disagree with what it prints."

    Again, false and misleading. The problem with the MVN's adjudication are these:
    1) It published irregularly. the entire week of 1/2 to 1/8 never surfaced. All legal advertising for that week never saw the light of day in a timely manner.
    2) The paper is never on time. It's publication date is saturday, yet rarely does it make it to the hands of the people of Sierra Madre until after the weekend is over.
    3) The MVN has consistently refused to provide its subscription lists to the City despite its obligations to do so. Nobody has any idea whatsoever if it is reaching the legally required amount of people.

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  73. Any truth to the rumor that Lisa Spigai Perez is Josh's campaign manager? Just asking because a lot of the commentary we are seeing here tonight smacks of what was around during the DSP days. It really does have a big whiff of "downtown dirt" on it.

    Better get out the pooper scooper!

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  74. Good memory skillsJanuary 19, 2010 at 8:39 AM

    As boring as this thread has become, I am glad to see it. It nicely reveals a classic Dirt technique, often used in the anti-measure V/pro-JoeMosca days. The sequence goes something like this:

    1) Throw out an accusation
    2) Watch a person or people deny it
    3) Press the accusation harder as though the denial is some kind of validation.
    4) Watch the bait be taken and the target get busy trying to prove something that wasn't true to begin with.

    That's it!!! Finally, after all those red herring/inability to prove a negative/hypocritical mud slinging, or whichever false logic games those are, this exchange has laid it out clearly.
    Thanks "wait a second."

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  75. I concur. It's shallow and obvious. If you're going to play cards, play a straight hand.

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  76. I had to laugh at "wait a second"', reminded me of the nutty posts of Beth Buck and her "sponsors"

    Still, Josh Moran advocated a econcomic retaliation against local business owners just because they advertised in the SM Weekly and because the paper publish editorials that didn't cave into the rants of the DSP conspirators.

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  77. you'd thunk that "wait a second" would check his or her own so-called facts before posting - must be a writer for the MV Whatever

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  78. It has always been the same style of kooky palavar from the dirt squirts for years. Which pretty much shows that it was never more than a couple of people. Maybe 3. Which is fine, the residents should always knows the kind of lunacy that awaits them should they vote these fools into ofice. They are their own worst enemies.

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  79. Poster 5:20.

    I was a member of SMRRD and attended all of the SMMRD meetings.

    I don't recall one realtor ever coming to a SMRRD meeting.

    I don't recall one realtor making a donation to SMRRD.

    I don't recall one realtor speaking out against the DSP.

    I don't recall one realtor writing an article in support of Measure V.

    I don't recall one realtor appearing at a City Council meeting arguing in favor of Measure V.

    If there were any realtors who supported Measure V during the actual Measure V campaign you would never know it.

    P.S. My memory is really good.

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  80. as ususal, wait a second is jumbled. Beth Buck did speak for realtor because there was a list of realtors who "sponsored" her website

    if that doesn't make sense to you, then you could be Tiger Woods manager and explain "speaking" on behalf of sponsors to him

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  81. I am delighted that this clumsy attempt was made, because I won't fall for it next time. It's a useless exercise, generated by someone who wants to muddy the waters and then point out how muddy they are.

    Earlier I was even thinking of going to the library to look at the Draft EIR for the DSP books (3 or 4 different copies of that colossal waste of money, with different notes handwritten in them, and a technical appendices) to see if there was indeed a letter from a group of realtors in the supporting materials - and then it hit me that it would be a fool's errand and probably the kind of tautological nonsense "wait a second" intended.

    We all know, Dirts and Preservationists alike, where the town's realtors stood on the DSP and Measure V.

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  82. Just read this thread. Some troll is suggesting that there was a bloc of realtors opposed to the DSP and in favor of Measure V!

    How gullible do you think the readers of this blog are?

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  83. BTW, I'm still waiting to hear what Mr. Moran, whose realtor's license apparently expired, does for a living.

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  84. Josh! You Go Boy!!!!

    I hope you get it! At last an honest Sierra Madrean on the Council. One who will keep Sierra Madra first and honest.

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  85. "You go boy!!"

    Yep. He's a boy. Even his supporters know it.

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  86. lol...honest...lol

    2:39 must have been dozing the last few years we Mary, Kurt and Don have been on the Council

    I guess "honest" is relative to some

    yeah, old Joshy Boy is honest, he honestly didn't care about Sierra Madre so much he moved away and threatened boycotts against Sierra Madre businesses

    that's some honesty I can do without, thank you very much

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  87. Closet five year old...January 20, 2010 at 5:59 PM

    Kurt moved away! neener neener neener!
    The Dunns moved away! neener neener neener!
    MM's sweaters should move away! neener neener neener!

    Whew! glad I got that off my chest!

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  88. Anybody keeping track?January 21, 2010 at 10:32 AM

    What's so great about this thread is that it shows the Dirt tactics so precisely. A Dirt or two will throw out an insult disguised as a question, or pretend to take a position on higher ground, receive a refutation full of specific facts, examples, heck, even video tapes, and said Dirt or Dirts will completely ignore the facts, then claim they want facts.
    Get it?
    So while there is certainly a five year old's grasp of the political issues at play, there is also a very intentional effort to confuse and obfuscate the information presented to the voters. Stupid and clever at the same time.

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  89. Nice parsing, 10:32, but you missed a layer.

    Dirt 1 makes an inflammatory statement, posing as a preservationist (the far too common 'pretend preservation')

    Dirt 2, or maybe even Dirt 1 in an encore performance, calls out the original Dirt for lacking facts and courtesy (Remember all those sanctimonious calls for courtesy from Buchanan when he was mayor? A milestone in the hypocrisy of our elected officials)

    And that's how they kick off these wasteful detours. One might even wonder if they were coached in this by the PR firm Schubert Flint ("It's flawed!")

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  90. God help Sierra Madre if Josh wins.

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  91. God has nothing to do with this.

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  92. Josh Moran is the best candidate. He Comes from a great Sierra Madre family with traditional Sierra Madre values. Josh also has many friends that belong to Long term Sierra Madre families that believe in Josh and know he is for the greater good and not for personal gain. Every person here in this forum that is attack the opposition is an angry soul, Josh and people alike think that creating good and doing good is a better way to spend your time than exhausting themselves with pointing out flaws and digging up dirt. Every person has worked long and hard and has done the best they could have for the greater good of Sierra Madre who is to judge the character of someone through someone else's words, clearly the people on this forum have because they haven't taken the time to meat josh themselves. If you never look you will never find the next best thing.

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