Friday, June 25, 2010

A Victory For The People's General Plan

"I saw it in your yards." - Councilmember Josh Moran

It was quite a showdown last night in the City of Sierra Madre Council Chambers. On the one hand you had the embattled locals as they fought to maintain citizen control over the committee charged with updating Sierra Madre's General Plan. On the other you had the 4 members of the Sierra Madre City Council who represent both regional government and corporate interests here, all of whom apparently hoped to be able to seize control of a process that could prove rewarding to the largely out of town interests they care about. The notion of this being a "study session" apparently having flown out the window.

There were two contending camps in what turned out to be quite a debate. On the one side was former Mayor MaryAnn MacGillivray, who voiced the opinion that the General Plan reflects the peoples' will, and it must be the feedback of the community that shapes it. After all, it is a living document that helps to give structure to the wishes of those who have chosen to spend their lives here. On the other side of the divide stood current Mayor Joe Mosca, who seemed to view this meeting as some sort of personal test. As is usually the case with Joe, his references were mostly in regards to how all of this reflected upon him personally. His message was that he would make the decisions, and that he was in charge. And Joe backed that sad and obvious measure of personal insecurity up with an unfair and snide aspersion on the effectiveness of the good hearted volunteers serving on the General Plan Steering Committee.

Mayor Mosca, who probably should never plan on a career in professional poker, was called out by Fay Angus over this unfortunate slight. After having heard an hour and a half of Joe proclaiming that he should both make the decisions and be in charge, she'd had enough. Fay stood up at the podium and informed Joe that she found his style to be both abrasive and uncivil. She told him it was the people of Sierra Madre who should decide what goes into this document, not him. Her remarks were greeted with vigorous applause.

After much foot dragging by an obviously reluctant Mosca, the Committee was finally introduced, and all delivered public comments that were positive, upbeat, and showed how the promise of this process was being delivered. All they needed now was the time and support of City Staff, plus regular (and frequent!) meeting times.

Mayor Mosca, his pique obviously still intact, then proposed a shocking change to the Committee that had the room groaning with disbelief and anger. He, along with the other City Councilmembers he is ideologically aligned with, wanted to expand the Committee by 4 members. Which, if the bizarre and uncomfortably personal outbursts of Josh Moran are to be believed, would apparently be chosen for having supported Joe and his running mates in the last election. Josh informing all that he had "seen the signs."

What would be the purpose of taking the unprecedented step of adding members to a Committee that was already on its way to doing the job it was selected to do? In my opinion it was to monkey wrench the process. By bringing in four new members most likely opposed to the concept of citizen control in Sierra Madre, things would quickly bog down as the two factions struggled to make their opinions heard. In time this would be marketed as the failure of this Committee process to work, something which would then require the City Council to step in and take over. A consultant compliant with Sacramento and regional planning mandates would logically follow.

In the end it was the dogged determination of MaryAnn MacGillivray, the numerous speakers at the podium, plus a frankly angry crowd in the City Council Chambers, that kept Mayor Mosca from making the motion that would have sanctioned the placing of 4 of his political cronies on the General Plan Steering Committee. The politically astute John Buchanan, sensing that this meeting was not a particularly glorious moment for his colleagues, agreed to a compromise that involved the inclusion of subcommittees into the mix, while also maintaining the General Plan Steering Committee with its original five members intact.

An interesting highlight of the evening was when a 27 year Sierra Madre resident named John (didn't catch his last name) called out Josh Moran for his resentful and politically motivated attack on some of the volunteers on the General Plan Steering Committee. John delivered a world class and much deserved dressing down to the Councilmember.

Lately there have been some new people showing up at City Council meetings who have been eloquently expressing some very negative opinions of the Mosca City Council. I've never met any of them, so I have no idea who they are or what their motivations might be. But if this is a sign of how Sierra Madreans are reacting to the new regime, then the early reviews cannot be considered good.

One other thing. The two new members of the City Council aligned with the current Mayor seemed remarkably in synch and scripted on the question of expanding the General Plan Steering Committee. It was almost as if they had been discussing the notion earlier. The Mayor and Mayor Pro Tem might want to consider (should they ever actually decide to go down that road) whether the new members have the sophistication necessary to disguise their involvement in such activity.

140 comments:

  1. It was very unethicalJune 25, 2010 at 1:04 AM

    There was tension in the air from the moment Mosca pretended that he was so happy to present the General Plan and the wonderful people on the committee and that there would be a discussion.

    As soon as MaryAnn began to explain what the other councilmenmbers obviously did not know, the tide began to turn.

    Introducing his slimey little secret that he wanted his corporte greedy developeres on the General Plan was a revelation of who we all know him to be: after the gold.

    He has never cared about the people of this town or the future of this lovely village. All he cares about his himself.

    It was a fight worth it. You had to be there to believe it. Interesting how Josh and Nancy KNEW NOTHING about the history of the GP Committee and had to wait over 2 hours to hear the TRUTH!

    My head is still spinning. My stomach aches. The people of SM deserve much much better leadership. Only ONE person there had any common sense or leadership skills.

    MaryAnn the voice of leadership, strength and truth. Thank you again for listening to the people and doing what is in the best interests of the people of Sierra Madre.

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  2. Josh Moran committed the most egregious act of all time when he contended that the General Plan Committee could not do their job because they apparently did not vote for him, as evidenced by their yard signs during the election. I contend that he will henceforth have to recuse himself from any city council discussions/actions regarding the General Plan, since he has expressed his opinion prior to consideration of the committee.

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  3. At least Joe didn't tell Barbara Cline to "get a life"

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  4. The General Plan Committee emerged intact! The once and future Mayor MaryAnn MacGillivray said it all, "Let the people speak." In a scenario originally planned by Joe Mosca to derail the GPC the people did speak and took back the Council Chambers. From the very able and eloquent Ms. Delmar and her committee, to those stalwarts Fay, Heather, Barbara Lee, Carol, and Welcome! newcomers! The evening may have belonged to Barbara Cline who would not be silenced! Standing at the podium, speaking out, addressing her outrage to the citizens at home, she was a glorious inspiration to all who witnessed her defiance of the Council's clumsy attempt at subverting the people's general plan.

    The City has committed to supporting the committee, the Council has committed to supporting the committee, and we need to get behind them as well!

    Job well done.

    Thank you all.

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  5. We saw from the majority faction of the City Council last night the same kind of crude and ugly politics they employed during the last election. They have the civility of rattlesnakes.

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  6. Shocked and dismayedJune 25, 2010 at 7:25 AM

    What I witnessed last night at the Study Session was the gross inability of this new Mayor and City Council to employ any leadership skills whatsoever and I shudder to think what will happen in the event of a City-wide life-threatening emergency. I put my faith in the average Sierra Madre citizen to cooperate with one another in times of stress, not these posturing windbags. Thank God for MaryAnn MacGillivray and God help us for the next four years.

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  7. It occurred to me this morning that the water rate increase has a time period on it covering the next four years, during which this awful majority will be in the seats of power. They will do whatever damage they can in the time allotted to them so that by the time a new council can be seated, these dirts will have exacted their revenge on a town not willing to support their philosophy of bigger is better. I'm glad that they were at least politically astute enough last night to recognize how much ground they were going to lose pursuing Mosca's plan of taking over the committee. Civility? I've never seen such uncivil, terrorist behavior as I've seen in Sierra Madre, all enacted by the dirts and their supporters. They sure do live their lies. God help Sierra Madre.

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  8. It is no wonder the city is having trouble finding people to serve
    on volunteer committees. Look at what they have to face!

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  9. more baffle mints pleaseJune 25, 2010 at 8:07 AM

    What on Earth got into Mr. Moran? Did he really think it was appropriate to speak solely from a personal point of view?
    He wanted his friends on the General Plan Steering Committee - well they should have handed in applications a year (?) ago. Oh maybe he didn't know about it then, because he was living in Monrovia.
    Someone better tell the man the difference between public conversation and personal conversation.

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  10. That was an organized ambush, pure and simple.
    Study session my ass.

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  11. Mr. Moran lacks boundaries. He talks like a teenager.

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  12. 1:04 a.m., I disagree that it was Joe who hatched the plan.
    Joe was the designated quarterback, and man did he blow it.

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  13. Discouraging volunteers is a legacy of former city councils and apprears to be alive and well again. A committee of volunteers for zoning changes were dismissed after meeting a few meeting, completing only one part of the task. The first Tree Commission (later reinstated) and the Cultural Heritage Commission (later inadequately folded into the Planning Commission) were disbanded. At one time the Planning Commission was reduced from 7 to 5 members.

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  14. Speaking of decorum, will one of Nancy Walsh's supporters please do her the favor of telling her to keep her mouth closed when she is listening, and so obviously struggling to follow the course of the discussion?
    That open mouth gaping does not inspire confidence.

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  15. While I am not in favor of a water rate increase it bothers me that someone has gone into the city computers to get water users information. I have a rental home and the bill is in my late father's name and mine and I pay the bill. I received a letter to sign as a protest and send back to the city clerk. I know that someone went into the city's records because my father's name on the bill from the city is always spelled incorrectly and I live in another city and the letter was addressed to my home address(the same one the city has for billing). Who is doing this and what right does this someone have to get this information? It troubles me that they may use this for other purposes as well. Isn't our privacy important? No matter what your politics, this information should stay with the city.

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  16. There was a humorous side to the evenings proceedings. Every time Joe and John tried to bring up something the General Plan Steering Committee should do, it turned out that the General Plan Steering Committee was doing it, or had done it, or was planning to do it.
    Joe and John repeatedly demonstrated that they have not been paying any attention at all to the work on the General Plan update.
    oops.

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  17. Before Josh Moran announced his personal attacks on the integrity of the committee members, he gave a very long thank you speech. Wonder how Joe felt about having his usual politeness script taken over.

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  18. 8:20, I don't know the specifics in your case, but I do know that information is available under the Freedom of Information Act.

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  19. The photo (top of today's blog) of last night's confab between the mayor and the pro-tem speaks volumns. Not sure at what point in the evening this one was taken but after the meeting when the other three CC members and audience were talking to each other as they left, Joe and John were in a huddle (behind the dias for long time) as this photo shows: downcast eyes, hands in pocket, hunched shoulders, listening to a scolding--abject lack of strength and leadership skills. The mentor is telling him whatfore.

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  20. Hey Council, the GP already existsJune 25, 2010 at 8:41 AM

    Arguing that 9 people will do a better job than 5 of going through a document line by line is absurd.
    Anyone who has ever done that kind of editing knows that the larger the group, the less productive it is.

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  21. 8:35 - that picture was taken after the meeting was over. I got it just before the TV screen went blank. Your take is spot on.

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  22. The General Plan Steering Committee was named last year and each member received at least four nominations from each of the seated council members. Josh was not even living in town at the time. He later admitted when he was on the Parks Master Plan he named his friends. Talk about insulting people.

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  23. 8:35 I was at the meeting. Did the cameras show that Joe and John were constantly wispering when things heated up?

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  24. Wow, just think if Mosca and Buchanan had gotten their way, and the steering committee hadn;t even been there, or hadn't been allowed to say anything.

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  25. It was a planned ambush of the General Plan Committee. Joe, John, Josh, and Nancy all knew what was going to happen. A clear Brown Act Violation if there ever was one. This also was not on the published agenda.

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  26. Josh Moran is bad news for the city.

    My 14 year old acts more adult than he does. I swear the guy presents himself as a college frat boy on a bender. He is on the Council to benefit his Mom and his realtor friends and also his own potential for sales commissions. I can't trust anything the guy says or attempts to do on behalf of the city. Bad news.

    Nancy Walsh as a CouncilMember acts like a clueless bimbo and as a CouncilMember, she is an insult to the intelligence of the citizens. Why doesn't she prove everybody wrong and at least try to read what's going on? I'm getting aggravated with her total lack of preparation, her lack of concern about the gravity of the Council business.

    Joe Mosca is a total ass. His motivation is purely personal ego and for HIM to think that HE is going to make the decisions for OUR city, well hopefully he'll start getting an earful every time he visits downtown.

    Where does Joe Mosca get off deciding that he is going to decide what is going to happen in Sierra Madre? Doesn't that even offend his most ardent supporters?

    It's obvious that John Buchanan is a total classless act. He's stacking the Committee so his employer will benefit from a pro development plan for Sierra Madre. His condesending attitude and disdain for those who disagree with him is naccaristic behavior.

    These four should recuse themselves from any future Council discussions on the grounds that they are all idiots.

    Josh must hate all of these meetings, It's cutting into his time at hanging out at Lucky Baldwins. Frat Boy.

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  27. Waaaaaaaaaa....I WANT MY WAY...WaaaaaaaaJune 25, 2010 at 9:14 AM

    Joe must be wondering why all of his supporters aren't attending these meetings and saying that whatever Joe wants Joe should get.

    What a baby he's proving to be.

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  28. 8:41. the GP may exist, but it's not the GP that Buchanan and Bart Doyle wants. The GP doesn't benefit Buchanan's employer.

    I supported Buchanan in his first election but haven't a shread of respect for him anymore. He is obviously conniving a scheme to benefit his employer and his own image. Why else would he put his opinion ahead of the people that elected him?

    There's some shaky and scary leadership on the Council now. And inept Councilmembers like Moran and Walsh.

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  29. 8:20 and 8:35 that information is public information.
    How else could the city require a negative-ballot-vote if the people who have vote in the negative-ballot-vote ("protest") remain unknown.
    Maybe one of our Prop 218 experts can clarify.

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  30. How do we request a Brown Act investigation into the probable collusion of the 4 City Council members who wanted to do in the GPOC?

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  31. It was obvious to us watching this meeting on TV that the 4 Barts were in violation of the Brown Act....Bart Mosca didn't pick it up, but Buchanan did, that's why they backed off.

    The 4 Barts will be VERY, VERY closely watched, any violation of the Brown Act.......the public can sue.

    The two new Barts were so inept last night it was pathetic, it was painfully obvious that Buchanan had "schooled them" on exactly what to say. Bart Nancy doesn't even use those words in her limited vocabulary, and the Bart, Josh, well, he totally messed it up- (how could his mother have allowed him to run for council)?

    Continued congratulations to the a-hole, apathetic public who voted (or didn't bother to vote) allowing these morons to be on our council.

    At least Mayor MacGillivray is still on the council to fight for the people of Sierra Madre!
    Thank you Mayor MacGillivray. You are truly a gift, a gifted gift!

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  32. 9:31 Contact the California Fair Political Practices Commission and file a complaint. You can call 800-561-1861. 9am to noon and 1 pm to 4 pm. It is their toll free tip line. How about all readers and attendees of last night sham of a meeting call in?

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  33. We need the "Black Helicopter"

    Check into the Tattler.

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  34. How do you get a black helicopter into City Hall?

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  35. I love that picture! You can almost here Joe saying, "Gee, I'm sorry, dad."

    "I know son, but you can't let them get you mad like that. One more night like this one and I'm going to have to take away your button!"

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  36. We should ask Josh about the black helicopter. Maybe he's seen it in our yards.

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  37. Maybe we should wait for this Council to implode due to Mosca's lack of leadership, but we can't afford to because the water tax will give Buchanan the dollars to lay the groundwork for large scale development that will benefit his employer.

    We should wait for Walsh or Moran to something self serving and stupid that violates public law and then the Council gets sued.

    For Moran to admit that he put his "friends" on a Committee is just asinine and demonstrates his committment to the city. Anybody and everybody Moran nominates will come under extreme scrunity because he was so stupid to admit that he just casuallly put his friends on a Committee. He's cementing his reputation as a "party boy".

    Josh? you love this city? Try acting like it and respect the position instead of acting like a kid. It's obvious that you don't care about being a Councilmember or don't have the time to be bothered with simple issues like facts.

    Based on actual performance at Council meetings, Josh and Nancy can 't grasp the concepts and have become puppet CouncilMembers that were placed on the ballot and elected to do what Buchanan and Mosca tell them to do. I'd be embarrassed to be known as a mindless yes person.

    Come on Moran and Walsh, get off your asses and study the issues.

    Or, do us a favor and resign. Stop being a waste of time with your personal antedotes, lame commentary and painfully obvious lack of preparation.

    Josh, this isn't a party. Grow up or shut up.

    Ms. Walsh, quit being a patsy for Buchanan and Mosca. Don't you know that both moved into YOUR and OUR city and immediately started volunteering and running for Council.

    Why can't you even prepare for a meeting. If you are over your head, at least do what's honorable and resign before you alienate your friends just because you are doing whatever Buchanan and Mosca lead you to believe.

    Come on Josh and Nancy, don't you see what Mosca and Buchanan are doing? They are making decisions for OUR city that benefits their employers, not the city and the future of the city as we know it and like it.

    What Josh and Nancy are doing is just following what Mosca and Buchanan tell them. Otherwise they'd have a few intellegent questions and show some consideration for those that voted for them and those that didn't to take this responsiblity seriously.

    Walsh actually believes that her update time at Council meetings to yammer on about her dancing? YIKES.

    If they ever cared about the city, Josh and Nancy are quickly become jokes.

    Unfortunately, they are both doing nothing to dispel the notion.

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  38. It's worse than that, 10AM. Josh and nancy can just sit there with vacant grins on their faces because they feel that is all they have to do. Their role is to vote the way John Buchanan wants them to. And that's it. They're happy with that role. They can be remarkably uncurious and poorly informed, yet still have the esteem and friendship of the guy who got them there. It is what they were hired to do. And they're very happy with their roles.

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  39. Anybody notice that when John's position changed last night, the other three changed their positions right along with him?

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  40. Since Nancy doesn't read or is it read the Tattler, send her your letters and call and leave her messages.

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  41. How curious that the Council Chambers was seemingly devoid of a retinue of DIRT supporters clammoring for a General Plan Committee overthrow.

    Perhaps their invitations were lost in the mail...

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  42. 10:09, it's also obvious that Walsh doesn't read pesky items like Council agendas or Council research having to do with issues.

    She' got Buchanan to tell what to think and when to think it.

    Josh is a joke.

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  43. I would never trust anyone Joe, John Josh or Nancy would nominate to any committee. They obviously are into the pockets of developers and have been given a directive to follow the money.

    After last night I regret following Joe. I thought he did care for this town. I hate to admit I was wrong. Toni Moran convinced me and I am sorry to say she had me convinced to vote for her son and Joe. Now I realize they are both poor speakers and thinkers. How embarrassing.

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  44. 8:57 I caught the constant whispering between the "3 minute Mayor" and Councilman Buchanan
    also. The one that stood out in my mind was when Joe seemed intent on making his motion to expand the Planning Committee, with tension running high in the chamber, Buchanan must have whispered,"your about to step on a land mine...back off"

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  45. Buchanan's got his hands full herding his Councilkin. I was stunned by how quickly Mosca fell into line as Buchanan negotiated with MaryAnn as to how the motion would be framed. She graciously tried to explain to Mosca that it truly was an adaptation of what he wanted but Buchanan continued to direct the discussion.

    An amazing study in just who runs the Council in this new regime.

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  46. 9:31 My thoughts exactly. Obviously a lot of behind the scenes strategy has taken place. The silly paroting of 3 Minute Joe and Pontificating John by Waltzing Walsh and Josh Realtor, make it obvious that the Brown Act is being asaulted.

    To the gang of 4. You should be aware from last nights meeting that there are a lot, and I mean a lot of very informed and inteligent residents in Sierra Madre. Your cynical assessment that the town can be railroaded into the plans of the Developers, Real Estate, Chamber of Commerace, and Rotary interests at the expense of our fair city should be put aside and an attempt to put together a consensus started immediately. Lets get behind our residents not outside interests.

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  47. it's the new civilityJune 25, 2010 at 10:39 AM

    What we can watch for is to see if WalshMoran ever, ever, ever disagree with John'nJoe on any matters of substance.

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  48. A lounge lizard, a ne'er-do-well mother's darling, and a small town cha cha dancing cocktail socialite. John Buchanan has surrounded himself with some fine fine citizens.

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  49. Grey haired old ladyJune 25, 2010 at 10:51 AM

    Ah yes. Dancing Nancy is a piece of work. Contrast her goofy headshaking open mouthed glazed expression with the spunky outspoken Barbara Cline and you have a real contrast in in the effect and commitment of senior women in their ability to make a difference. Remember Danny Castro's statistics last night: 45% of Sierra Madre residents are 55 or older! Wisdom and experience count in this town.

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  50. So they want the Rotary and Kiwanis giving input and running committees. These old guys fall aspleep at their meetings. Why not let the BIA do it for us and save everyone the time?

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  51. My list of the 4 people John Buchanan would have picked:
    1) Tim Hayden
    2) Glen Lambdin
    3) Susan Henderson
    4) Bill Coburn

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  52. Adding members to the GPSC--Joe first said he wanted to add all the members of the Green Committee (5? or 7? but not all seats yet filled) and someone from the Planning Commission (his not having read how that person was in a laison position in 1996) and then some others, too. His idea of a working number so out of wack. I am sure he wanted to tip the balance so he would have had to have added 6 more (need an uneven number to break tie votes, ya know). So, let's say he got a GPSC of 11 people--check it out, where is there a committee of 11 people ever in city government, 5 yes, 7 yes! But ll? Nine wouldn't have given him the majority he needed. Josh can't figure it either, as in his "friends" who wanted to serve, he also mentioned the number four. So let's see how they figure the numbers for the working subcommittees. They still won't make it-ha! A subcommittee does research, reports back but does not get to vote-ha!

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  53. Kim Klymer-Kelly is a big Mosca/Moran supporter as well as a blogger. She writes for the Mountain Views News, too. Now she's a Greenie.

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  54. Someone please guess as to what Joe's or Josh's list of four friends would look like.

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  55. My list:
    Carol Canterberry
    Rob Stockley
    Glen Lambdin
    Tim Hayden
    Bill Colburn
    Judy Webb Martin
    I know it's six 3 each

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  56. Glen Lambdin
    Carol Canterbery
    Toni Moran
    Judy Webb-Martin

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  57. Q.When is a study session not a study session?
    A.When it's changed to make it an illegal rules change bulldozing Joe Mosca Session. Don't you know that the fabulous four had this planned out from the beginning? Where can we complain about this violation of the Brown Act?

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  58. Question: How many people saw Buchanan going from bobblehead to bobblehead before the GPSC meeting issuing instructions?

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  59. Don't be silly 12:46. Dancy Nancy and the moron couldn't plan a bathroom break. This was a Buchanan/Mosca hatched debacle.

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  60. lot of posts todayJune 25, 2010 at 1:07 PM

    12:46, from a post at 9:42:
    "Contact the California Fair Political Practices Commission and file a complaint. You can call 800-561-1861. 9am to noon and 1 pm to 4 pm. It is their toll free tip line. How about all readers and attendees of last night sham of a meeting call in?"

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  61. First they came for the General Plan
    Then they came for the Water
    Then they came for the Skilled Nursing Facility
    Then they came for the Corner of Baldwin and SMB
    Then they came for the Court at Kersting
    Then they came for the Mountain Conservancy
    Then they came for the Canyon Zone
    Then they came for the Monastery
    Then they came for Alverno
    Then they came for all of Eminent Domain
    And when they took all I was after,
    Then they took me.

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  62. Thank goodness for the efforts of John Crawford. When I consider the amount of time he must put in doing his research and writing I am extremely impressed.

    I'm still not a big fan of the vitriol in the comment sections. However, it is obvious that our democratic process is helped Immeasurably by this voice of challenge and dissent.

    A suggestion to boost readership is to have a cautionary alert to anyone perusing the comments section.

    The people of Sierra Madre need to follow the Tattler to be fully informed.

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  63. Another agenda from the DevelopersJune 25, 2010 at 1:19 PM

    What a class act! Sophistication at it's best:
    Cantebury
    Hayden
    Webb-Martin
    Lambdin
    Mama Moran
    Stockley
    Henderson
    (doesn't she own the Dunn's money??)

    articulate, integrity, interested in the people of Sierra Madre, a record of genuine caring and kindness and friends of the new CC.

    AS Josh said
    "LIKE MINDS." Were they the "friends" he had in mind who would love to be on the committee but never bothered to apply?

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  64. Brown Action Violation....report themJune 25, 2010 at 1:19 PM

    The Brown Act requires under section 54954.2, subdivision (a), the legislative body must post an agenda containing a “brief general description of each item of business to be transacted or discussed at the meeting, including items to be discussed in closed session,” and no action or discussion shall be undertaken on any item not appearing on the posted agenda…. Shapiro v. San Diego City Council, supra, 96 Cal. App. 4th 904, 923. (Emphasis Added)

    The Brown Act requires under section 54954.3. (a) Every agenda for regular meetings shall provide an opportunity for members of the public to directly address the legislative body on any item of interest to the public, before or during the legislative body’s consideration of the item, that is within the subject matter jurisdiction of the legislative body. (Emphasis Added)

    The discussion should never happened or ever been voted on.

    Please everyone take the time to report this to the above phone number. It is Friday so they may not answer. If no answer, call Monday. Their behavior must be stopped. They think they are above the law.

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  65. I think Joe's supporters demanded that their heroes give them the General Plan outright. Just so that they could work their special interests into it. Think of it as our very own local PG&E being given its version of Prop 16.

    I can't imagine they were none too pleased with what they saw last night.

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  66. Just wondering....what is the specific claim that a violation of the FPPC's rules were broken? and what is the specific violation of the Brown Act?

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  67. gilman, my take on the Brown Act violation was a serial violation - so 4 out of 5 council members were prepared to argue for the same idea, and it was an idea that seemed to come out of the blue.
    I don't think any of this can be proved, so at this point I personally will not be lodging a complaint. But if you had seen the dovetailing that took place after our "Mayor" clumsily introduced his suggestion to increase a committee from 5 to 9, your suspicions would have been aroused too.

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  68. The discusion about increasing the number of members on the General Plan committee was not an agendized item. According to the law it could not be discused, a motion made or voted on without public notice. Also joe Mosca did not open up the illegal hearing for public comment. Another violation.

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  69. Joe is OCD, and the situation he was in must have had him screaming inside. He was overwhelmed by his emotions, could not think clearly, and because of that lost control of the meeting.

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  70. anonymous @ 2:47

    Based on what I have been reading, I would agree that members of the Council are deliberating on issues outside the mandates set forth under the Brown Act. Your contention that serial meetings are taking place makes perfectsense.
    Unfortunately as you suggested, without specific proof it will be tough to do anything about it. This type of behavior is all too prevalent in many local cities and often runs unchecked.
    The good news is that you now understand how this Council is prepared to operate which gives you an opportunity to try and collect the evidence needed to prove a violation. It would be interesting to know what records exists showing that Council members are meeting with staff under a serial format, also would be interesting to view phone records (if they exist and/or would be provided) for the Council?

    On a side note, it would be interesting to know why public comment rules were changed and when a mute button was installed and at who's request. The Mayor does not have the unilateral authority to direct staff to make such changes...such changes should have been on the Agenda and voted on by the entire Council?

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  71. Channel 3 watcherJune 25, 2010 at 3:15 PM

    Joe has yet to have control of a meeting.
    Reminds me of a dazed youth trying to round up a herd of cattle, not realizing he's lost half the herd already.
    He's running after that quick with of McGillvrey's all the time.

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  72. Gilman, are you suggesting that Joe's "I Can't Hear You! La! La! La!" button might be illegal?

    Oh dear. Better call out the Tattler Investigative People (TIP)!

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  73. Not every possible outcome or action must be listed on an agenda. As a "study session", a discussion related to the overall issue is fine as well as possible actions to take.
    The Tattler article indicates that members of the public, such as Fay Angus, were allowed to comment?, so I am not sure about the claim no public comment was allowed.
    Do not get me wrong, Mosca and his cohorts are the worse kind of politicians and seem fully prepared to rule vs. represent the citizens. However, if you are going to take action to stop him, make sure you have a dead bang winner of a case. If you start filing Brown Act complaints with the DA and can not provide full and complete evidence of a violation, the DA may ignore valid complaints you may have in the future.

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  74. Great advice gilman.
    Thanks

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  75. After a long and contentious discussion, the General Plan Steering Committee was invited to the podium to speak "as long as they wanted". Each member had an undisturbed opportunity to talk. Afterwards the public approached the microphone and were limited to three minutes but several spoke. Mosca then closed public comment. Except it didn't stay closed. Committee members returned, the public returned - numberous times in some cases, and Mosca initially told every one public comment was closed. No one paid much attention and kept on talking. Eventually he gave up and sat quietly while Buchanan tried to salvage what remained of the study session. MaryAnn and Buchanan essentially had a dialogue, Mosca tried to insert a motion but was talked over by Buchanan, and the moron and Dancing Nancy went blah blah blah.

    It would be hard to make the case the public didn't have an opportunity for input because they took over the meeting. No buttons were pushed except for Joe's.

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  76. Is our City Attorney guilty as an accessosry to Brown Act viiolations? Is the remote cut off of public comment a violation of the Brown Ace? Is the resulting "rubber stamp" of the two new Council Members a violation of the Brown Act (Mosca publically said the two new members were "being trained" on Council Issues). Is that a violation of the Brown Act? Is the non vote becoming a yes vote (Prop 218) a MAJOR VIOLATION of the Brown Act? (in spite of the Legislature's action). Is the flagrant whispering and obvious collusion prior to and after Council Meetings a violation of the Brown Act? Are the many omissions of information about non agendized and agendized Items and posting requirments, flagrant violations of the Brown Act?

    Why hasn't our city Attorney called these violations out before the public. And if as publisized The City Attorney's Law Firm is considered the "word" on bypassing the 2/3 vote requirement for a tax increase in favor of the Prop 218 fiasco reqiring a simple majority....If remotely true, why hasn' she publically disclosed her behind the scenes activities and recused herself from advising our Council?

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  77. All questions that have to be put to our city atty next meeting. We need to hammer this home. And hard. That was collusion we saw last night. It must be exposed for what it was.

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  78. I wouldn't "expose" the collusion by the city council members, I would embrace it! If you bring it to their attention, well they are going to become much more secretive and sophisticated in their behavior.....making it near impossible to prove their illegal behavior.
    If it were me, I would simply sit back and watch...looking for an opportunity to prove my case that the law is being broken.
    just my 2 cents....

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  79. anonymous at 3:18...

    The "button" is not illegal, however the manner in which it was installed and at who's direction may be. Additionally and far more important is how the button is being used.

    It appears that the City agenda's fail to list any rules for public comment? If Mosca is muting those who offer criticism or complaints and allowing others to speak for a longer period or without muting....well you have a real problem, or should I say the City and Mosca have a real problem.

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  80. Gilman, you have been most generous with your time and opinion today.

    Thank you.

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  81. Gilman is correct......no one should jump the gun until we get the word from our attorneys.
    We have at least 4 top notch attorneys, actually, 5 that I know of. 2 are land use experts.
    We'll move at the right time.

    So far Bart Doyle's gang of 4 have made a very bad impression on even the naive.

    We always knew Joe was very bad, but he is much, much worse than we imagined.

    This is a very thoughtful thread. Thanks to all who care enough about Sierra Madre to participate.
    To all the new people.....WELCOME ABOARD,FRIENDS!

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  82. It is pathetic that the GANG of FOUR refuse to listen to the GRACIOUS and well informed MaryANN and do not have enough CIVILITY to even thank her for her well enlightened information.

    I heard Josh tell Carol Parker last night that he was sorry for insulting Debbie Sheridan, and Carol, after trying to explain to him that as a politician you do not treat voters with partialiaty, reminded him that he had a lot to learn from MaryAnn. He stood smug and arrogant and told Carol that "most of the time MaryAnn is wrong and I am right."

    His comment was the reflection of the lack of ability to listen and learn of the City Council. They do not want to listen to anyone, including MacGillivary. A wise man said "knowledge will forever govern ignorance."

    THANK YOU MARYANN!!!!
    WE ALL HAVE MUCH TO LEARN FROM YOU!!!

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  83. Josh is a fool. We're going to have a lot of fun with him.

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  84. Don't forget whose really running Sierra Madre again, the criminal Bart Doyle.
    He gives orders to Buchanan, who then is directing Mosca, Moron and Walsh.
    It's a band of "barts" against real Mayor....MacGillivray and her supporters.

    Anyone miss Don and Kurt yet?

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  85. I didn't vote for the idiot!June 25, 2010 at 8:13 PM

    I revise my earlier opinion.

    Josh Moran is an idiot and can't change.

    How did we elect this doofus?

    I've never met such a pompous self centered windbag with such a high unwarrarnted opinion of himself and his opinions

    wait, I take that back. I've met both Buchanan and Mosca

    Honestly, does Moran drink before Council meetings? can we run a breathalyzer on him?

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  86. You have 12 seconds...11...9...5....1....0 silenceJune 25, 2010 at 8:16 PM

    In all of the years of Sierra Madre, only Joey Boy Mosca needs a button to silence those who he disagrees with.

    Even Dasterdly Bart Doyle didsn't stoop that low.

    Leave it to Boy Mosca to set new low standards.

    I bet Buchanan came up with the idea.

    There's got to be a record of the work done to install the button?

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  87. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it was my understanding that there has been a 3-minute public speaking rule in place for some time. It was just never enforced before.

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  88. It is at the discretion of the Mayor as to how long taxpayers can speak their minds at Council meetings. Under the previous two Mayors taxpayers were allowed the freedom to take as long as they needed. That is not the case now.

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  89. I wish I could type my thoughts, but Crawford would delete them....so here is my toned down comment.

    I hadn't seen the council meeting last night.
    I just watched the entire meeting.

    Joe Bart Mosca is one slimy piece of work. I've never seen him worse. He is a disgrace.

    John Bart Buchanan...is just doing his job as a special interest lobbyist for development in the name of the "green" scam. He is a windbag and offensive as ever.

    Josh Bart Moran is impossible to describe and not get deleted, he is one evil little deviant, I burnt white candles while he was on my TV set. Satanic ain't the word.

    Nancy Bart Walsh is a pathetic idiot.

    Mayor MaryAnn MacGillivray is a SAINT for staying on this horrible city council.
    Thank you, Mayor Mac. You are the only one there who represents the people of Sierra Madre who do not have special interests orchestrated by Bart Doyle's evil agenda.

    How could anyone of you reading this have voted for the deviant Josh Moran? Let alone the Joe Mosca or Nancy Walsh?

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  90. Joe prove you do not have to listen to Bart and Johnny BJune 25, 2010 at 11:30 PM

    Well Mayor Mosca: Are you going to allow all the citizens to speak their minds and be remembered as the Mayor who allowed his town to speak freely at Public Comment?

    Or are you going to limit Public Comment and be remembered as a Mayor who spoke about Civility but was not civil enough to listen to the citizens?

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  91. "Civility" was just a campaign tactic. A distraction from Joe Mosca's carefully orchestrated Swiftboat strategy. Joe is about as uncivil a person as you will ever meet, a ambitious and ruthless control freak who will do anything to achieve his ends.

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  92. You nailed it 6:47

    The frightening thing is we have always suspected his "ends", now we know for sure and it really is worse than we thought.
    This man has a total disregard for Sierra Madre and it's residents, except for those who buy into his bs.

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  93. One girl's viewpointJune 26, 2010 at 9:11 AM

    It may just be a game of semantics but I believe Joe is not the one with the total disregard of Sierra Madre and its citizens. It is the combine that supports him - we only hear about Bart Doyle, Kathy Childs, the CRA, the BIA, and those poor sad souls that find the Kiwanis, the Rotarians, and the civic clubs a haven from the melieu outside the village. In that regard Joe is as much a victim as anyone - he's just not a very sympathetic victim to many of us. He's doing a dance with the devil and the devil and his cohorts could turn on Joe at any moment. Our mission is to so provoke Joe as to cause his abandonment by the devilish contingent so determined to turn Sierra Madre into a theme park for developers.

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  94. Buchanan is the Pied Piper of the City Council. The last thing he wants is to be accused of violations of the Brown Act. Don't think for a moment that someone in his camp isn't reading The Tattler and letting him know the temperature of Tattlerland on any given day.

    Keep up the pressure! The bobbleheads are fully capable of violating the Brown Act out of ignorance. He has his hands full as he pipes about the village with his followers in tow,

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  95. Bart Mosca, Bart Buchanan, Bart Moran, and Bart Walsh...........lead players of the Doyle puppeteers.

    They all have strings that tie them down to cast their vote to destroy this town!

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  96. Did you get your 4th of July flyer from Dr. Bosse? It couldn't even get Mrs. Nieby's name right - it's Louise, not Louis you fools. So poorly written that one expects the body of poor Dr. Nieby to be riding in the parade with "Louis".

    I for one won't be contributing as long as it's a closed club with no hope of a non-Joe supporter being allowed to participate.

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  97. Josh Moran, you little creep!

    Quit harassing people after the council meetings.

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  98. Show the Gend of 4 on the City Council, their smug attorney - Sandy, and the inept Staff that the people of Sierra Madre still make the rules. Get you NO water letters signed and turned in.

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  99. Are those two tipsy realtors going to be anchoring the SMTV3 broadcast this year? What a joke! Please ladies, don't gush over the abs of some of the local musicians who'll be in the parade! They wouldn't give you the time of day.

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  100. I respectfully disagree, One Girl. Joe is a total organization man, one whose reason for living is to please power. He is neither an independent thinker or one who would ever venture out on his own, no matter what the issue. He lacks the inner resolve or courage to do otherwise. Desperately needing both the respect and obediance from those he sees as his responsibillity, all we will ever get by provoking Joe is the kinds meltdowns we've seen from him during the previous two CC meetings. Criticism embarrasses him deeply, and he fears that it diminishes him in the eyes of those whose approval and sanction he craves.

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  101. I watched the replay of Thursday night's meeting last night, and John Buchanan is almost constantly in Joe Mosca's ear during the last hour. It is like he is issuing orders after order to him.

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  102. Is whispering (off mike communications) legal during a public meeting? Is that some kind of violation?

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  103. John and Joe had private meetings going on all evening. They didn't need to include Nancy or Josh because they knew they'd follow their lead without thinking.

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  104. I think Johnny B was doing an intervention with Joe. It looked
    pretty obvious that he was about to explode, just like he did when
    Shirley Moore handed him his butt a couple months ago.

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  105. I sure hope none of the old "sob sisters" in town feel sorry for Joe, because he gets "upset".

    Look, those people on the GP Committee had every right to question his authority on his outrageous plan (or Bart's outrageous plan) to cut off the committee at the knees.
    Add four more people, which is disturbing in the number, meaning 9 people would be on the committee, now....think about this, people, the Barts would still be 5/4 on the committee....OR SO IT WOULD SEEM......this tells me there is a "plant" on the current committee of 5, and the Barts are well aware of that.
    Slick move.
    Protest this people, even if you have to storm the city hall with pitchforks and torches.
    The Barts are out to destroy Sierra Madre.
    Don't let it happen.

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  106. Can't we all just get along?

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  107. Mommie and Daddy DearestJune 26, 2010 at 12:14 PM

    It is interesting to recall that each person for the GP introduced by Kurt Zimmerman, was done so with graciousness and charm. He gave them each a grand welcome and told the audience why he felt they were perfect for the job. I remember that he used terms like "very intelligent,well educated, committed to Sierra Madre, a person of integrity."

    Thses 5 people are totally a DREAM TEAM of WELL EDUCATED and sophisticated and experienced people who have been waiting to work, but have been told NO. THis is AMERICA'S FINEST group you could ask for. The stalling has gone on tooooo long. Let them me so that the job of GOVERNMENT can go on. Stop with the blabbering.

    Let us move on with the GENERAL PLAN committee in place. We are aware of all of the plots that are part of the story. The community knows that there are forces working to break up the current GP and bring in Cruella De Vil.

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  108. The council was to discuss the general plan, update process and "policy direction". I suppose a lawyer could argue that the motion to add members to the committee would be a policy direction.

    As far as public comment: The agenda says "Under the Brown Act, Council is prohibited from taking action on items not on the agenda, but the matter may be referred to staff or to a subsequent meeting. EACH SPEAKER WILL BE LIMITED TO THREE CONTINUOUS MINUTES, WHICH MAY NOT BE DELEGATED. THESE RULES WILL BE ENFORCED BUT MAY BE CHANGED BY APPROPRIATE CITY COUNCIL ACTION." Caps mine.

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  109. 10:44 - look at the composition of the committee and know there is not a plant. They are a committee of 5 committed citizens wanting to do what they can for Sierra Madre. The plants would be all of Josh's friends added later. I think what the regieme is upset about is there is not a realtor or contractor on it.

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  110. Rodney DangerfieldJune 26, 2010 at 1:22 PM

    I tell you, I can't get no respect.

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  111. Some of the members were named by all 5 Council members and others were named by 4 Council members. So where is the problem?

    If Joe and John had wanted 9 members on the GP committee why didn't they say so 2 years ago when the applications were 1st asked for or at least last year before the committee was picked?

    Everyone knows one big reason Joe wanted to be the Mayor last year was to name the GP committee. Since he didn't get to, he is trying to do it now.

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  112. And Josh was not even living here 2 years ago. He has no right to complain. Unless, of course, it is because people did not have his sign on their lawns.

    Josh, your apology does not count. Stepping down does. You are not qualified since you do not know what you are talking about. You did not even know why the GP did not GET to meet.

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  113. Anyone with an IQ over room temperature and who watched that meeting Thursday night would now understand fully, why Zimmerman, Watts and Mayor MacGillivray did NOT vote Joe (Bart) Mosca in as mayor.
    He is the most inept and unqualified person in Sierra Madre to be in this position. It's just a disgrace.

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  114. Wave you water bills at the 4th of July parade.
    Enough is enough

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  115. wow, I am comment number 114 I believe, Awesome!!

    Keep up the great work, Tattler!!

    Give 'em hell.

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  116. Mosca is a disgrace, but I have to tell you, there were very few (if any but the faithful) people who watched Thursday night, from the response I have
    from for those I talk to. We are now in our little circle and no one cares but us.

    Believe me, this town has gone to sleep in a big way. They haven't read the water increase, they don't know about the canyon or the general plan committees. How are we going to wake them up?

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  117. After watching the City Council Mtg, I came to the conclusion this is not "Our Town." Yes, the city of SIerra Madre really has been taken over by POD PEOPLE!!!!!!! While I was riding the waves on the Ivory Coast,some mistaken identities were ushered in as newly elected council members. Hmmmmmm...after many quotes starting with "I" it seems that the mayor is "I"-Mosculated & his "see-or of what's on peoples' lawns" fellow council member has a tunnel view. Does this mean he, too, has his head up his ....? What??? Dirty politics has risen to a new low. God Bless America & God Bless the Ignorant. Just another example of God's sense of humor. This is a great example of "beware of what you ask for!" The Emperors are now in the public eye, clearly & visibly making it possible for everyone to see how nakedly inept they really are...disgusting isn't it? How embarassing it must be to be "them!" Surfs' up!!!! Gotta go!

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  118. 4:53 You're right.

    I swear there are more lunatics in this town per square mile than in Los Angeles.

    When they finally wake up to what's happened....just don't blame us Tattlers....we all had Watts, Crawford and Alcorn signs in our yards, just ask the Moron. By the way, Joshie, what the hell were you doing creeping around our yards? Just happened to notice our signs as you were peaking in windows? You a-hole!

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  119. To 3 minute Jo, Muse John, and the Pupeeteers. Your now publicly exposed as what you represent. Water Tax increase...Deveolper support to rape our hilsides, and General Development plan and the LLC's hope to get in and get out and leave the residents of Sierra Madre holding the bag, and make a "big buck".

    For our Cities sake get out and send a protest to the Water Tax. Now to the City Clerk.

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  120. I'm not a lawyer, here's the link to the Brown Act, it's long:
    http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=gov&group=54001-55000&file=54950-54963

    The penalty for violating this section is described near the end (a misdemeanor conviction can result in up to a year in jail or fines or both):

    "54959. Each member of a legislative body who attends a meeting of that legislative body where action is taken in violation of any provision of this chapter, and where the member intends to deprive the public of information to which the member knows or has reason to know the public is entitled under this chapter, is guilty of a misdemeanor."

    If the gang of 4 are coordinating -- either as a group or serially (i.e. one person talking to another in a game of telephone or even an outside person, say Bart Doyle -- talking to each of them individual) and then they take an action based on that coordination, then they would seem to be in violation of this part of the Brown Act:

    "54952.2. (a) As used in this chapter, 'meeting' means any congregation of a majority of the members of a legislative body at the same time and location, including teleconference location as permitted by Section 54953, to hear, discuss, deliberate, or take
    action on any item that is within the subject matter jurisdiction of the legislative body.
    (b) (1) A majority of the members of a legislative body shall not, outside a meeting authorized by this chapter, use a series of
    communications of any kind, directly or through intermediaries, to discuss, deliberate, or take action on any item of business that is within the subject matter jurisdiction of the legislative body."

    I hope the new people (Nancy and Josh) have been warned of the consequences of collusion -- and maybe some returning council members (Joe and John) need a refresher course.

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  121. Many people got up and reported that there was a ulterior motive.

    The audience was well aware from the get go that this was not in accord to the Brown Act plus it was not agendized. Josh and Nanacy just went along with Joe. It was all obvious. They had NOTHING to offer for the TOWN.

    The one thing John will never be able to get the other 3 new members to do, is to speak well. The 4 of them talk in circles and are an over-whelming embarrasment.

    They are a horrible representation of SM residents.

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  122. Sorry for a long post.

    At the end is what the Brown Act says about public comments (same link as previous comment):

    Section (b) says the council can set reasonable limits, including time limits, on public comment. Given past practice in Sierra Madre its not clear that a "3 strikes" approach and along with a strict 3 minute limit would be considered “reasonable”. Reasonable limits make sense on a case-by-case basis (hearing on Stonehouse, when there’s a long line of people, etc...), but a blanket rule enforced by cutting people off in mid-sentence when few people are waiting doesn’t seem reasonable – especially if carried out arbitrarily (i.e. only against people who the person wielding the button dislikes).

    This behavior by Joe might be putting the city at risk of being sued (and putting himself in legal jeopardy – see post above) by violating section (c) below (guilty of “prohibiting criticism of the council” – and any violation by one councilmember reflects back on all councilmembers -- how many on the council are willing to risk a year in jail by allowing Joe to use “the button”?). This doesn’t even start to get at the non-democratic nature of cutting people off in mid-sentence (Joe is even going beyond the language on the agenda which simply says people will “generally” be limited to three minutes).

    People can comment about this at the beginning of the next meeting. The agenda item “Approval of Agenda” is an agenda item like any other – so people must be allowed to publically comment on the agenda before it is voted on (see section (a) below which says the public must be allowed to comment on each agenda item before it is voted on).

    It would be good to make clear during public comments that “the button” should be removed (installation of “the button” being the type of house-keeping thing which didn’t require a formal vote, so it would not require a formal vote to have it removed).


    Here's the section in the Brown Act on public comment:

    "54954.3. (a) Every agenda for regular meetings shall provide an opportunity for members of the public to directly address the legislative body on any item of interest to the public, before or during the legislative body's consideration of the item, that is within the subject matter jurisdiction of the legislative body, provided that no action shall be taken on any item not appearing on the agenda unless the action is otherwise authorized by subdivision (b) of Section 54954.2. However, the agenda need not provide an opportunity for members of the public to address the legislative body on any item that has already been considered by a committee, composed exclusively of members of the legislative body, at a public meeting wherein all interested members of the public were afforded the opportunity to address the committee on the item, before or during the committee's consideration of the item, unless the item has been substantially changed since the committee heard the item, as determined by the legislative body. Every notice for a special meeting shall provide an opportunity for members of the public to directly address the legislative body concerning any item that has been described in the notice for the meeting before or during consideration of that item.
    (b) The legislative body of a local agency may adopt reasonable regulations to ensure that the intent of subdivision (a) is carried out, including, but not limited to, regulations limiting the total amount of time allocated for public testimony on particular issues and for each individual speaker.
    (c) The legislative body of a local agency shall not prohibit public criticism of the policies, procedures, programs, or services of the agency, or of the acts or omissions of the legislative body. Nothing in this subdivision shall confer any privilege or protection for expression beyond that otherwise provided by law."

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  123. It is a shame that we who elect our representatives then have to take our representatives by the hand and explain to them the proper deportment of representatives in a democracy. This should be learned in high school (and the better students learn it in grade school). But some people need a little extra help.

    Part of the reason the Brown Act was passed, though, was because there have been many Joe’s in the past – and it is up to the people to teach them how proper representatives should behave.

    Here’s the start of the Brown Act:

    "54950. In enacting this chapter, the Legislature finds and declares that the public commissions, boards and councils and the other public agencies in this State exist to aid in the conduct of the people's business. It is the intent of the law that their actions be taken openly and that their deliberations be conducted openly.
    The people of this State do not yield their sovereignty to the agencies which serve them. The people, in delegating authority, do not give their public servants the right to decide what is good for the people to know and what is not good for them to know. The people insist on remaining informed so that they may retain control over the instruments they have created."

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  124. Title of Thursday night's meeting:

    AGENDA SPECIAL STUDY SESSION MEETING SIERRA MADRE CITY COUNCIL Thursday, June 24, 2010 Open Session – 6:30 pm City Hall Council Chambers 232 W. Sierra Madre Boulevard

    Thursday was not a regular meeting as referenced above. There is no evidence that John said anything but "good evening" and "nice to see you" in his back of the dais conversations with the bobbleheads. As for whispering to Joe - just what was said?

    Until there is incontrovertible evidence of misconduct all this talk of Brown Act violations is not going to go anywhere. You people are wasting your time! Get the evidence!

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  125. 8:13 am.

    How do you know we're not getting the evidence.

    You had better hope for the sake of your friends....the BARTS......that we don't have it.

    Make no mistake about it, dirts/barts.....this gang of 4, Bart Mosca, Bart Buchanan, Bart Moron and Bart Dancin' Nancy are going to be watched MUCH closer than the previous gang of 4.....Buchanan, Joffe, Stockley and Torres.....you remember, the four Bart Doyle puppets who GAVE AWAY ONE CARTER??????? Sure you do.

    This is one damn disgusting puppet show......it's hard to endure. It could be disastrous for Sierra Madre.
    However, if we think we have it bad, how would you like to be former MAYOR MaryAnn MacGillivray and have to sit up there at the dais with those three morons and lobbyist Buchanan?
    Things went well for the MACGILLIVRAY, ZIMMERMAN, WATTS majority, very well. Budget balanced,RHNA numbers reduced.....thanks to former Mayor Kurt Zimmerman, Mayor MacGillivray and Mayor Pro Tem Don Watts.
    You know, Don Watts has something in common with former Prime Minister of England, Sir Winston Churchill.......Churchill, almost single handily saved Europe from Hitler's Nazi's.
    His reward from the people of England? They didn't even re-elect him to office after the war.
    Congratulations all you apathetic or just dumb voters out there.....you are now stuck with Josh MORON, Dancin' Nancy, and an inept NARCISSIST, Joe Mosca. Way to go!

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  126. I direct you to the eminently reasonable advice of Gilman. Do not allow the Moscateers to co-opt any evidence you may have by blasting it on The Tattler. This quoting of the Brown Act by LazyBoy lawyers is right up there with issuing Glen Beckian historical rewrites and expecting the smart sophisticated readers of this blog to find relevancy in craziness. Enough rope and The Moron will hang himself; the more Dancin' Nancy is exposed on SMTV3, the more her inappropriateness on Council is apparent.

    The election is over. The voters you are castigating are the very voters we will need in the future.

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  127. Deb Sheridan performed a great service to the cause by calling out Josh Moran and provoking him to acknowledge past inappropriate committee selection last Thursday. Keep up the pressure!

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  128. In the spirit of VolunteerismJune 27, 2010 at 9:45 AM

    Everyone on this thread should complete and submit an application for the General Plan Committee. They want choices? Give them choices! I'm sending mine in next week.

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  129. Methinks you doth protest too much 9:24am -- quoting the Brown Act is not "evidence" that the Barts can co-opt.

    But I do agree it is true that the voters should not be disparaged.

    Just speaking as an individual I would think the best time for a recall is at the next regular election (April 2012) -- put all 5 seats up for election. That way it will not be rushed as happened last time an effort was made to recall Joe. This time, as you say -- they will likely provide enough rope to hang themselves.

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  130. Someone needs to get Josh to recuse himself for every discussion on the General Plan. He has politicized himself already and proven he cannot be objective about the citizens.

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  131. Rolling Brown are violations are hard to prove but what has been proven is that when councilmembers are talking off mike to one another they are not listening to the comments from the public. When the mayor is monitoring the minutes left to speak he is not listening to the person at the podium. When an item not on the agenda (adding to the membership of the General Plan Steering Committee--except that "policies decisions relation to, etc.") spring so fully formed without open discussion you are pretty sure some off camera chit chat took place.

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  132. They cannot whisper and call one another. But, we sure can. Let's not let them know what we are all up to. Let them continue to think we are all dumber than they are.

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  133. As far as the mute button being put in the council chambers it could have gone under audio (?) update or repair and should be on the warrants (if city money was spent) which are public record. City clerk can provide those.

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  134. My guess is Buchanan was trying to keep Mosca from going
    ballistic like he does when things are going badly for him..

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  135. Buchanan is going to have to keep Mosca from going ballistic every meeting then........

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  136. June 27, 2010 1:12 PM -- classic case of projection.

    Because the Barts do everything in secret cabals, they naturally think that's what everyone else is doing.

    The concept that the people would want to talk publically about the people's business and would demand that their representatives only talk in public about the people's business is completely foreign to them.

    In fact, public discussion is a threat to the Bart way of business.

    So, if you want to help the Bart's become like them -- whisper in private and be afraid of people who talk in public.

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  137. On Planet Dirt the truth is uncivil.

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  138. On Planet Dirt, there needs to be a Ethics Investigation. They represent the worst in Politics. The worst and they are so deeply imbedded, they cannot see it. Yet.

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  139. Who needs a mute button when we have a police chief who can stand in front of you at the podium and yell "CUT" (like flamblueger) when your three minutes are up.

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  140. how can anybody expect Josh Moran to be objective?

    the clown called for a boycott of Sierra Madre businesses just because they advertised in a weekly paper that provided balanced reporting on Measure V and had editorials in support of Measure V

    Josh must have burned out too many brain cells partying at Lake Havasu

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