Thursday, December 30, 2010

(Tattler Best Of 2010 - #3) Josh Moran and the Conspiracy of Grapes

"Please do not insult my intelligence." - an obviously insulted Josh Moran

City Council meeting agenda item #9 was moved up to #3 last night, which was also mixed in with public comments on both the water rate hike and whatever else came into peoples' minds. That an issue having the importance of water expense would have been casually tossed in with Tuesday Open Mic Night seemed odd. But then perhaps Mayor Mosca doesn't see much importance in public comment anyway, and just figured what the hell.

But that is neither here nor there. Because as far as this blog is concerned, it was Councilmember Josh Moran that saved the evening. Thank God he wasn't in his car, because that boy was driving angry.

The topic of contention was the possibility of bringing back the Prop 218 process. MaryAnn MacGillivray, in favor of a water rate increase herself despite the unruly crowd she hangs with, thought it would be inappropriate to ask people for more of their money without also allowing them the ability to review the financial sacrifices they would be required to make. And by denying the rate payers their Constitutionally guaranteed rights under Prop 218, they would be without a truly meaningful review. Something Americans are not supposed to be endure, even if they are uncivil. Or live in Sierra Madre.

This seemed to touch off something sore and festering within the obstreperous being of Mr. Moran, because he went off on a bit of a tirade. Apparently he was deeply displeased that people should have questioned the judgement of a City Council that he so kindly graces, or actually gone out into the streets and attempt to overrule one of its august pronouncements.

In the mind of Mr. Moran it seems that those who protested the original water rate hike last May (you know, back when it was all about fixing old water pipes and had nothing to do with servicing bond debt) were engaged in sour grapes, playing games, passing misinformation (but not by telling people it was about fixing pipes as Mr. Moran did), or bitterly practicing some sort of grudge politics.

Now being one of those grudgeful guys myself, I did get to speak with many of the people who gladly signed the water rate protest forms I had to offer. Business owners and landlords signed them because times aren't so good and they feared that such additional expense would put them into a financial bind. And some of these folks do use a lot of water in their businesses, own large pipes and meters, and felt that Bruce Inman's occult tier scheme was an unfair burden aimed squarely at their taxpaying selves.

Then there are the retired people on fixed incomes. People who, despite the scoffing of Mr. Moran about the supposedly small amounts of money involved, would find the additional demands to be onerous. Among our most vulnerable citizens in this gentrifying city, most gladly signed the protest forms I offered to them as well.

And then there is also the Sierra Madre that Mr. Moran apparently does not care to acknowledge. Families that are barely making ends meet and really can't afford any additional expenses. People who live in a world where the relentless nickel and diming of small additional costs and taxes has accumulated over the years to the point where life's basic necessities become a daily struggle to attain.

In the choleric mind of Mr. Moran it would appear that those described above are nothing more than malcontents and troublemakers, bitter because they do not share in the kinds of glories attained by himself. And rather than people duly exercising the Constitutional right to redress their grievances with an obviously out of touch government, they are instead individuals consumed by a sour grapes resentment of Mr. Moran. Who I assume must believe that he occupies a special place on an altar at the center of their lives.

Another highlight of the evening came about when MaryAnn MacGillivray questioned the City Council's preference for water rate increase Option 3, further leavened by Mr. Moran's 4 years of 7.5% additions. City Attorney Levin, while not troubled by the notion in itself, did caution that such increases would exceed what she referred to as a "cap." Something that, should the additional amount of water money collected go beyond that limit, would trigger an automatic return of the dreaded Prop 218. Which, after the vast outpouring of public protest last spring, quite obviously scares the crap out of the G4. Sandi advised "tweaking" the take in the latter two years to keep them all safe from so horrifying a prospect.

MaryAnn then asked if the tweaking of these third and fourth year increased rates was actually to be done with the express purpose of avoiding another run-in with Prop 218.

And when none of the G4 dared to gainsay the obvious truths in her question, another chapter in the water rate saga was written. We have now gone from pipe repair canards, to water bond servicing, to City of Sierra Madre bond rating maintenance, to a soon to be created ordinance where rates will be set in order to attempt to deny people the right of challenging a decision this City Council so badly wants to put into place.

Has there ever been a municipal rate increase created with suppressing the right to protest taxes as one of its fundamental rationales?

Additional stuff happened, but I'll leave it to others to write about. Though I do have to admit, that the Obama Administration is actually pushing the notion that a way to cure childhood obesity is to build mixed-use development had me laughing loud and long. And here I thought mixed-use development was supposed to save the world from global warming.

The magical powers of condominium construction seem to be endless. And the G4 eagerly embraced yet another example of the strange madness currently gripping this nation.

I got an email from a friend this evening ...

... and she had an interesting story to tell. It seems that the Sierra Madre Nursery School was holding its annual crafts fair in the park yesterday. They also were conducting a "Mrs. Nelson's Book Fair" as well. Both happening as a way to help raise funds for their renowned parent supported school. Stuff they have been doing for years.

Sadly for both the moms and their kids, someone from City Hall sent over Code Enforcement Officer Lisa Volpe to shut all this down. The parents apparently were operating without a business permit. Something they had never been required to get before.

Lisa was nice about it all agreed. I mean, who wouldn't be embarrassed by having to chase a bunch of nice families out of a park? Lisa was just doing what she was told to do. So the parents packed up their kids, books and crafts and went home.

Only in Sierra Madre.

(Ed: This post originally appeared on Nov 10, 2010.)


  1. And So It Goes..The City is perfectly content with the situation as it stands and why not ,they hold the cards.All they have to do is listen to the "mob" every two weeks and march resolutely onward towards their goals.It will take more than oratory and verbal wizardry to remove this rot.

  2. I find it increasingly difficult to watch CC meetings. Josh Moran, Joe Mosca, John Buchanan and Nancy Walsh are so bad, they damn near win the title of the worst CC in Sierra Madre history.
    Only one worse...the Doyle, Stockley, Hayes and Lambdin CC. The shenanigan years. This G4 may just end up even worse.
    Of course they are controlled by the same "puppet master", the infamous Bart Doyle.

  3. So who turned in the Nursery School? Lisa only goes out on complaints...

  4. Sometimes I think we give old Bart a little too much credit. He answers to the same things as the rest of the hirelings. Large utility companies, developers, realtors, Sacramento, all things that stand to profit dutiful city officials who cooperate.

    In the grand scheme of things Bart is more Capo than Godfather. Assigned to watch over the four Fredos on our city council.

  5. I think you're probably right, 6:17.
    This guy is just a small fish in a tiny pond.
    I don't know the guy, but what I've seen and heard of him, he is a pretty low class individual, who rules over a group of equally low class individuals.

  6. Josh seemed to be suffering from a kind of roid rage last night. I
    wonder if he thought he was at a wrestling match.

  7. Moran, you disgusting little p****November 10, 2010 at 7:11 AM

    After hearing the right reverend Moran's sermon last night, the one about taking the water at Lourdes, I was gratified to hear that he is following in the footsteps of St. Judy Webb-Martin when he pontificate Sierra Madre water is not only delicious and cheap, but costs the same as in imported up scale bottled waters. Hang in there Josh, and I do mean hang.

  8. I suppose the rationale goes: they're going to be mad at any increase, might as go for the most money we can squeeze out of 'em. And the idiot Moran accepted the role of the Sheriff of Nottingham, throwing down the tax challenge to the citizenry, to take the heat off Buchanan and Mosca, for what reason?

  9. The tetchiness of Mr. Moran could be attributed to a lot of things. But
    the one I'd put at the bottom of the list is that he planned last night's
    outburst for a purpose.

  10. Wow,what a demonstration of community spirit..pickling on the nursery school?Lets squeeze the little tikes like everyone else,they're only citizens!It is a real eye opener to watch these Fascist clowns stomp about obliterating the spirit of this community.

  11. is anyone really surprised at Moran's behavior?I think it,s obvious.One sees it around them every day..

  12. The trouble with tribbles is that they drink too much water, Mr. Spock.

  13. In a farming community Josh Moran would be thought of as a "banty rooster", "a small man in a big man's world". Odd that his behavior in this case (towards a woman) indicates he thinks he is a small man. For once I agree with Josh Moran. He has reason to think of himself as "small".

  14. Now let's just see. The City sends out an officer to shut down a fund raising event in the park for a nursery school, then later that evening votes to deny the tax payers the right to protest a controversial rate hike. That is quite a day for them.

    What number reich is this again?

  15. 7:41 Your right! Josh Moran huffed and puffed until he blew the town down. His behavior last night even seemed to offend Mosca and Buchannan. They looked down when he attacked Mary Ann. What a temper Moran has. Sierra Madre is in deep trouble, with irrational behavior replacing reasonable thought.

  16. Banty Rooster! LOL!!!

  17. In regards to Moran's comment to MaryAnn MacGillivray?

    "don't insult my intellegence"

    WTF? What intellegence?????????

    Frankly, Josh, it doesn't appear you have any.

  18. 7:41 You are too nice..the behavior was certifiable!

  19. Insult what intelligenceNovember 10, 2010 at 8:18 AM

    Moran's conniption fits are diagnostic. He fancies himself so close to adult respectability that he can almost taste it in that little satanic thatch around his pouty lips. When the only adult on the council challenges his juvenility, he displays it. I would imagine John, the Orator, Buchanan is beginning to see Josh as a liability.

  20. If I need a business does everyone else...even the Nursery School. Some non profits always want special treatment.

    Good job Lisa.

  21. There was a delightful moment of irony in the comingling of the forgotten public comment for items not on the agenda and the most contentious item of the evening, indeed of the last half year. Tim Donnelley's supporter talked about how important it was to Donnelley to stop all the bond madness.

  22. I find Mr. Moran spooky, not funny at all. That is a lot of anger that comes out at the meetings. It's like he's having a passionate argument with a significant other who is walking out the door.

  23. Earl Richey,
    if your reading this:


  24. So Josh showed us last night that he's a conspiracy theorist. Why am I not surprised.

  25. I don't agree with everything Tim Donnelly has to say by a long
    shot, but he sure does piss off all the worst people.

  26. Yes,8:25
    That was great!
    Tim's great!
    Thank you Sierra Madre for voting him to represent us!

  27. It looks like Moran cannot separate his feelings from his thoughts - and a political person needs to be able to do that, to consider things with an even temper, even in losses. The way he brings all that extreme emotionalism to the table isn't good.

  28. I get frustrated with the charade this cc-1 puts us through.
    They were going to do the hike as they originally planned, for as much as they could, in order to keep going more and more into debt.
    So why don't they just say it/do it and not make us listen to all the denials. Nancy walsh said we wanted to be able to get new monies with our better bond rating.

  29. Get ready for the same tactic with the general plan, 8:46. They'll
    turn all that public outreach into justification for putting some of
    the most hair raising development language into the GP you've
    ever seen.

    It's what they do.

  30. With all the focus on the drama king, the mayor's oopsies are sliding by. He actually told the woman who got the water board support (not the Bush kind of water board) that
    You've got a consensus here in the council, "which is not often the case"
    Which is not often the case??????
    Where the hell has he been?
    It's not called the CC-1 or the Gang of 4 for nothing.
    Buchanan and Mosca are political soul mates, and Moran and Walsh will never break ranks.

  31. Good old Faye Angus. She forced Mosca to say that they were not going to spend fifty thousand dollars on a city hall counter or 7 million on a library. Of course when she asked that those items be removed from the capital improvements list, nobody said a damn thing.

  32. the problem with liarsNovember 10, 2010 at 9:03 AM

    It doesn't really matter what Mosca says.

  33. They already loaded the GP committee with extra people who are nothing but bobbleheads.

    I fear you are correct 8:49.
    Let's just wait until they commit the ultimate atrocity, then we go after them.
    Other cities are doing it, so can we.
    Actually, we did it once....Measure V. We can do it again.

  34. 8:25: just to be clear, the Nursery school was not expecting special treatment. In fact, once they became aware that the fundraiser that they have been running for many years now was in violation of city code they promptly packed their stuff up and shut the sale down no ?s asked.

    The part that got me was the city clowns actually rolled a patrol car to the "scene."
    I guess a biz lic fetches more than a blown stop sign ticket.


  35. One comment I am heartily sick of is that Sierra Madre employees don't make 'fair market value' money. Joe said it last night talking to Weaver.

    Fire 'em.

    Get people in here who want the jobs, and will work harder for even less than our poor underpaid employees do.

  36. Fay Angus?
    If you are reading this, thank you.
    You always come through for the folks.
    You always ask the tough questions.
    You always tell the truth.
    And, like MaryAnn MacGillivray, you don't even have to do this, there is nothing in this nightmare for either of you.
    I know I speak for many here in town when I say, again, THANK YOU.

  37. 9:09
    I'm sick of hearing anything Joe Mosca says.
    He is a total a-hole.

  38. Amen 9:09. If I hear that kind of whining in a workplace from somebody who's lucky to have a decent job with benefits no less, I say don't let the door hit you on your unemployment check on the way out.

  39. 8:25 Indeed,this is what the madness is about.A spurious Bond push to enable a government entity to push for a fraudulent self-serving enterprise at the expense of their Citizens.Tammany Hall and the Dailey Machine would be proud!

  40. Crawford, you are right that they would bend over backwards in order to not have to renotice.
    So it's not just Josh. The four 'representatives' of a gullible public are running scared of the residents of this town.
    With advice from counsel, of course.

  41. Calling local historians. There was talk about decreasing the percentages of raises on the water bills if it turned out that we had bookoo bucks. Does anybody remember a time, ever, when the city decreased taxing us because they had a good amount of our money?
    Any time? Ever?

  42. The evil Spock has a self editing function.
    Last night he flared and said that the process of the last half year was "a waste of time" -and then the editor kicked in, and he said "well no not a waste of time" because he realized that he had just disrespected everybody - staff, council and their education outreach efforts, and residents he supposedly 'serves.' There's serving going on all right, but it's not from him.
    Clearly The E.S. wants to rule, not govern, and is impatient with the need to actually dialogue with residents.
    Residents who show up at meetings, residents who don't put up his signs, residents who have known him all his life but disagree with him on issues, all are irritants to this guy.

  43. The Gang o' Four is living in a self validating belief system in some weird bubble.
    They are not tracking the real world.
    Neither is the city staff.
    Don't know what it would take for them to wake up.

  44. Somebody explain please. Where did this group ever come up with the civility lie, the civility campaign? They are NOT civil.

  45. Lets call this for what it is.The gang of 4 are aiding and abetting Racketeering.I think we have a very good sense of what has and is taking place.We have a choice,do we remain passive or take steps towards a plan to reverse the direction the City is forcing us into.

  46. Running by the nursery school it looked like they were displaying the children's artwork outside the building. Sounds like a code violation to me. Code 4.

  47. Moose - they'd better hurry! The nursery school is right on the Arcadia line and they could relocate their contraband there.

  48. Moran is a native, but he doesn't know anything about politics in Sierra Madre.
    He's got the illusion that if residents are not beating him with a stick they are happy, that unless residents join the few brave souls who get to those endlessly boring meetings, they are happy - and he thinks these fantasies because he himself only came to meetings once in a great while to argue for realtors' causes.
    There's a fair amount of ignorance mixed in with all that bad temper.
    The ignorance must make him skittery.

  49. 9:08 Give me a break. How else where the police supose to get there, on a pogo stick?

    In fact it was probably Mrs. Nelson's Bookstore that should have obtained the permit. The school only gets a tiny amount of the $$$. Mrs. Nelson's Bookstore is a thriving bookstore that does these fundraisers weekly. The bookstore is the real profit maker not the school.

  50. What Councilman Moran's tirade showed was that he would spread false information to play a dirty political trick.
    What you see is what you are Mr. Moran.
    Hope you are working on your public apology to the 2,000 residents you slandered last night.

  51. Pogo sticks might help our finest get into shape.

  52. I have been wondering why we don’t have any outrage over the lies by omission of those who we have elected, particularly our current mayor and mayor pro-tem over our own little “watergate”.
    Perhaps we want to believe in the leadership more than the omissions, distortions, and down right twisted truths (lies?)
    Perhaps this will partially explain it:
    “In the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying. These people know only too well how to use falsehood for the basest purposes. ... people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it."
    We all know that Mosca exaggerated his record and truths, but he still was elected as our leadership. It worked successfully for his election, so should we be surprised his or the behavior of his group to lead with anything except the same behaviors?
    We, ourselves, are at fault for the kind of people who lead us. In a monarchy or dictatorship, supporting this type of leadership is a reflection of themselves, particularly by perpetuating them, like those we have elected... for a second time.

  53. I'd love to see the SMPD clowns on pogo sticks! What a great suggestion for the 4th of July parade.

  54. Sierra Madre is becoming a modern day example of civic thuggery and gangsterism.Good Luck to you!

  55. I did not vote for themNovember 10, 2010 at 10:46 AM

    Lots to think about in your post 10:41.

  56. It's true. If you tell a lie often enough, it will become true in the minds of the masses. Look at the last election. Ads against prop 23 were full of big and little lies, and people believed them. How many times has the council members said that the protest workers told big lies about the water rate raise? How many times has Joe, Josh and John said that there was lots of misinformation flying around. As one who worked on the water protest, we were very careful about what we told the signer and if there was a question we couldn't answer, we found out and got back to them.

  57. How uncivil of Josh last night to go into his tirade. I wanted to slap him! A little boy with little manners and little thoughts.

  58. There was no greater piece of misinformation out there than that the water rate hike was because of old pipes rather than bond debt. Abd that came straight from the Gang of 4.

  59. 11:23AM:

    The unfortunate truth :

    Even if the charges are totally false, and even if the “accused” answers the charges credibly and effectively, "the grossly” impudent lie” always leaves traces behind it." Which means, no matter how effectively the accused .. answers the charges, some people will still believe he's guilty, and many others will still retain varying degrees of doubt and uncertainty regarding the accused, who may well lose…. due to the cloud hanging over their heads. This, is the magic of lying that "is known to all expert liars in this world …"
    That is why people like Jerry Brown and others, on all sides of the political spectrum can even boast about making statements in the form of half truths, can get elected and brag.
    Until the People can see it will eventually destroy us as a Society, we will keep electing petty dictators, and voting the way we do on issues.
    Until that day comes, we as a city, state, and country will be doomed as a society, we will be known as the generation, who destroyed what the founding fathers gifted us with.
    Shame on us.

  60. Guess who, I am trying to guess!
    Very informative and helpful in my trying to understand the success of the incompetent in this town.

  61. inverse unlogic "us hate truth" wilson, quote about bush's new bookNovember 10, 2010 at 11:54 AM

    10:41 Hitler, and Goebbel "The big lie" it is like Michael Aguinos "appearance of ethics"

  62. General Plan Town Hall Forum,
    Sunday 11-14-2010
    2:00 - 4:00 PM
    Youth Activity Center
    611 E. Sierra Madre Blvd.
    Sierra Madre 91024

    those who want to expand are cities for there own needs will show , but will you who love are small village
    Complacency is not an Option

  63. 11:29 yes yes!!!!!

    Old bonds, then maybe, if possible, maybe a smidgen, for old pipes

    Totally false 'notice'

  64. Per year, $900,000 for bond payments, $100,000 for old pipes.
    And they decided not to lead with the bond payments. With the $900,000 part. They led with the $100,000 part.
    Why would I trust them?

  65. GUESS WHO!

    Your message sure resonates with me!

    These idiots who voted for the very people who are the problem deserve what they get. Trouble is, people like us, who did the right thing, are going to suffer the consequences.

    We have a choice, I suppose, Guess Who, we can suffer in silence or we can fight.
    I'm not sure if I have it in me to fight again, do you? If you do, I suppose I'm in, AGAIN.

  66. Roasted Politicians with Stuffed Staff on the Side make a good Sunday dinnerNovember 10, 2010 at 12:36 PM

    A town hall meeting on a Sunday, that is really sad. At a youth activity center? Pathetic..
    Makes me mad enough to hurl rotten fruit & vegetables. How much do you think Mosca, Buchanan, and Moran weigh?

  67. I won't say "Who" I am, but I am a student of history.
    To understand this, you must read "Mein Kampf"
    it's written in Hitlers own words. You could say it's a manual written for our present leadership.
    The words "leader", and "leadership", unfortunately implies we are to be led (like cattle). The term should be peoples' representative.
    11:54am should be congratulated for recognizing where the polemics have come.

  68. 12:36 pm, you are way off base and out of order. The Town Hall Meeting was scheduled and being presented by the people and for the people - all of whom are volunteers.

    An apology is in order and perhaps you should consider a more appropriate level of medication.

  69. Seems to be a particularly venomous mix of out of towners and newbies to the site posting today.

    You know how I can tell? You don't know what you are talking about. And, while it might seem sophisticated to anonymously accuse the CC-1 of being Nazis, it alienates others who's families were devastated by Hitler, and truly bares little resemblance to a resistance movement over a water rate increase.

  70. O.K. I know you as a friend, your energy is amazing.
    Keep fighting the good fight, you will have people watching your back.
    Our latest set of little dictators will be gone in a few years, and no one except a few historians will remember them.
    For Mosca and Buchanan, Sierra Madre will be a dead end for them politically.

  71. Unfortunately not born yesterdayNovember 10, 2010 at 1:04 PM

    I would only believe the "Town Hall" meeting was of, by, and for the people if John Crawford told me that it was. The signs for the meeting I saw were typical city hall issue, and the phrase, "drop by" or whatever, sounds like another (pretty) big lie. I'll drop by and they will listen . . . sure they will. "Volunteers" supporting the mosca-buchanan regime deserve no respect from anyone.

  72. Well, John Crawford? This is your big chance! Show your support for the volunteers.

  73. Hokay. We should probably forgo the nazi references. Don't know how familiar folks are, but on the internet there is something known as "Godwin's Law." And it states that any references to Nazis or their leading figures immediately invalidates whatever point the poster might have wished to make. I fully support that.

    Over 900 "page views" so far today. People are definitely tuning into what's happening here.

  74. UNBY is a troll. Truly is there anyone in town who doesn't know the story of the General Plan Update Steering Committee?

  75. 12:54 pm,
    You are missing the point. I said nothing about accusing anyone of being Nazi’s.
    The water rate increase is only a case in point of what is wrong with our leadership.
    It is the style of our leadership in our country that I have come to fear.
    Half truths, lies by omission, of our representatives is intolerable.
    I am glad you are unnerved by what I have said..
    We seem to be electing those people that don’t seem to act as peoples’ representatives.,
    But rather as temporary dictatorships, with the license to fib.
    “you have to pass it to know what’s in it”
    Because the National Socialists of Germany embraced that form of leadership after WW1 is truly scary, and I don’t wish to see that type of governance here.(city, state, or country).
    By the way I know one hell of a lot more about government oppression than you may think.
    Keep on fighting the good fight.

  76. I agree 1:15.
    Troll time.
    The gp volunteers have worked hard to not be business as usual. Of cousre if residents don't show up, it will be business as usual.

  77. Can't win. The Town Hall meeting was planned on a Sunday so it would not interfere with the Saturday youth sports programs. It is in the afternoon so it won't interfere with church activities. It is at the YAC because that is the largest venue that the City has for the time being. It was planned by the old committee and community volunteers.

    At all the public General Plan Update Committee meetings, volunteers were solicited for the outreach and the town hall committees. Only a handful of the usual suspects volunteered. And they weren't the ones who had Josh Moran's signs on their lawns. We can't get them to be involved or to volunteer. I suspect they will wait for all the hard work to be done then they will come in and critize every point. If you don't like the ideas, then join the committee so you can plan the next one in March.

  78. Dear Volunteer,

    I am not a troll, but I am, apparently uninformed. And I still haven't heard what I consider the voice of reason in this town say that a "drop by" meeting at the YAK is good for the slow growth movement. I have read, however, on this blog that the cc-1 tried to stack the committee against slow growth.


    Voted and Supported with contributions McGillivray, Crawford, Alcorn, Watts, Zimmerman, Measure V, the last recall, and the water rate protest, so if you are a volunteer in the spirit of this blog, you should say you are sorry, you misspoke.

  79. Did any of the "volunteers" think of communicating with the dedicated readers of this blog? Or did I miss something?

  80. Uninformed - you know what? I'll be there as well. I think there are some very good people involved, and I certainly owe it to them to show up.

    I have an article on this scheduled for Friday. Check it out then.


  81. 1:44, that's not just uninformed - it's oblivious.
    Come to the meeting. Get a clue.

  82. 1:47 you seem to have missed every article the Tattler has had on the General Plan Update.

  83. I guess that's why this is a losing fight against mosca and buchanan: you can't see who your supporters are.

  84. Whatever y'all.
    I vote troll.
    Moves the thread off of the council and onto the individual poster.

  85. Check out 1:52. The troll pay-off.
    Nice set up.

  86. I thought John Capoccia (sorry if its misspelled) made the best remarks of the night. The original study was based on a 10% reduction in water consumption, and he questioned the validity of that. Because of the wonky 'conserve more = city gets less money' he suggested being conservative, going for option 1 to see what happens. Made a great presentation.

  87. I'm thrilled to see so many new faces at the podium. John Capoccia, Mr. Bush, Ed Richey, Jim Engle, all of them great speakers. And, in addition to speakers, we need letter writers! If you write or e-mail more than three a copy of the same letter/e-mail, it becomes a matter of public record. Send a copy to the City Clerk as well.

  88. I want to give a shout out to Angus. She is a masterful speaker with clear purpose and unfailing logic.
    I also appreciate her gentle jabs, as in "you could go to the bank and see how they lowered a section of the counter."
    Thank you Fay.
    And city staff, for goodness sake, if you do such a thing, hire a local carpenter.

  89. We need a General Fund oversight committee. Forget all this namby pamby UUT or water rate
    committees. Let's put some demanding taxpayers on the whole enchillada committee. Who knows how many $50,000 counters are squirreled away in there awaiting funding. The only reason we knew about this one is they mistakedly put it on the water infrastructure grid.

  90. My husband and I saw the signs for the townhall meeting today and assumed it was just more of the °process.° I am glad to hear that it has citizen support.

  91. I would like some clarification.
    Initially we were told that the 50 thou counter and 7 mil library were on a 'wish list'.
    Which is now called a capital improvements plan.
    Well my wish list goes something like if I win the lottery, I'll buy my grandson a house, and my capital improvements plan is more along the lines of getting a repairman to look at the stove.
    I was less worried when the city staff called it a wish list.

  92. That anyone would even attempt to budget a $50K counter is absurd. It might not be on any list for actual construction now, but it sure indicates a big ticket mindset that is totally out of synch with what is going on in a lot of peoples' lives right now.

  93. 4:21 - yeah, isn't it funny that when you see anything that smacks of city hall you just don;t want to go there? The special water meety a couple tuesdays back at city hall was pushed hard by city hall. Postcards, the works. But just about the only people who showed up were tattler readers.

  94. General Plan Update Steering Committee Communications TeamNovember 10, 2010 at 5:07 PM

    The postcards that were mailed to your homes, the posters in the downtown shop windows, the counter flyers in City Hall and many businesses, "yard" signs at strategic intersections, and the banner across Baldwin advertising the Town Hall Forum on Sunday, November 14th at the Sierra Vista "YAC" from 2:00 pm until 4:00 pm ARE part of the process! The process for the residents of Sierra Madre to provide input on on the General Plan!

    Councilmember MaryAnne MacGillivray was eloquent in her declaration that it is the people's plan! And with her help, the residents prevailed! The process of updating the General Plan, as mandated by the State, is not being outsourced to consultants! It's being managed by the General Plan Update Steering Committee, chaired by Denise Delmar.

    The Communications Team is responsible for the design, message, and distribution of the printed material, the press releases, the SMTV3 advertisement, and the message on Sierra Madre's own radio station.

    Did City staff help? You bet they did! It has been a most fortunate alliance of volunteers, working with the City, accomplishing one of the most important tasks that will affect us for the next 20 years.

    Come out on the 14th to support our town! Why? Because we need you! Even John Crawford will be there!!! Drop by between 2:00 pm and 4:00 pm. We'll be there.

  95. Little tornado today, Guess Who great truth, and insight you can see how it works by the knee jerk reactions it caused. Between the election and this long drawn out water battle, it seems everybody is a bit skittish and worn out today. Anonymous 11:56 A town hall on Sunday does seem a bit like mixing church and state. Town halls are for pushing city agendas. A lot of us are disappointed in the city today, forgive me but the city appears both uninterested and unsteerable. Complacency is what guess who was trying to illustrate, 8 people viewed the meeting per the video count and about 5 spoke. Guess Who 12:38 "Past is Prologue" and thank you. Volunteer 12:43 You best get off your soap box, it was simply bad timing to announce the meeting and the editor should have done it. 12:54 Mein Kampf was written by Karl Marx, not Hitler, the rest was way off base and obviously misunderstood. Both 1:13's oh man...1:15 UNBY is not a troll.

    I had to look up the word obstreperous, hugs Tatts

  96. I think a lot of people assume that if it is a city event they will be told things that are not true.

  97. Mein Kampf was written by Stalin? Really? Wow! And Dubya wrote a book that's worth buying.

  98. Hitler wrote Mein Kampf.
    Marx wrote the Communist Manifesto.
    Love your posts Scarlettt T, but the general plan volunteers have been shamelessly used & abused & might be a tad techy.

  99. Yuri AndropofftosleepNovember 10, 2010 at 7:38 PM

    For those of you out there making Hitler-Stalin references and dragging Karl Marx into the mix, I suggest you get into your jammies and call it a night. None of this has anything to do with politics and policy in Sierra Madre. You are confusing the History Channel and Channel 3. Give everyone a big kiss and say good night.

  100. Before the Tattler, the day after a council meeting in Sierra Madre was grim indeed, with political adrenaline hangovers and horrific levels of frustration. Now we can vent, articulate and excoriate.
    Everybody sleeps better, not just Yuri.
    Thanks Tattler.

  101. City Council meetings only exist now to provide content for this blog.

    Outside of that they're really not good for much.

  102. I disagree MM. They are good at spending money.

  103. 6:21 You know I came back here to correct myself and relate that he wrote Das Kapital and that he was the a socialist 100 years (1818 to 1883), Mein Kampf, Hitler 1923 to 25?, Anyway
    I was late because there is a great video, called "The Cult of Marx" by Xlivescom on you tube I just watched it again. I confused the two, because of the majick of lying reference of Guess Who's comment.

    I cannot garner any enthusiasm for someone that would tear the blog apart, not today. But I am proud they are asking for John Crawfords participation. I do not suffer city fools. I cannot tell them they will not continue to be shamelessly used & abused by the city. In fact, I can just about guarantee they will. I do wish them the best. Should be a real party

  104. The Meeting on Sunday is to receive community input. There will be NO lectures, NO formal presentations, or NO telling people the city knows best.

    In fact the Council members can be there only as residents. They have NO say.

  105. God Bless Mr. Ritchey (ritchie, richie?)November 10, 2010 at 8:36 PM

    He He He, Night John Boy...Remember everytime a tattler makes a comment an angel gets her/his wings!!!

  106. how can u insult a person's intelligence when he apparently does not possess one?

    apparently, unlike Bill Clinton, Moran must have inhaled quite often

  107. yeah, sure Joshy Boi, the same kid that advocated a boycott of Sierra Madre businesses because he was completely opposed to freedom of the press and anything that promoted Measure V a few years back, he denies it but most of us know the facts and now he lies about every saying it

    the dude is a total worm


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