Wednesday, December 15, 2010

Just Because Your Fees Are Going Up Doesn't Mean Your Fees Are Going Up

Probably one of the more absurd City Council meetings I have witnessed in a while. And not that I don't appreciate absurdity because without that the sensory overload of a daily disjointed reality might become a bit too much to process. But there just has to be a point where you've got to stop and throw your hands up in the air and beg it all to stop.

Or at least ask civilly. As in, "Please, stop that."

So here's the breaking point. Fees in the City of Sierra Madre, per our City Council not all that long ago, are not going to go up. Even if it meant that the City would have to eat some of the cost of processing those fees. Considering the economy and the City's currently sedate finances it was the reasonably fair thing to do, I guess. But apparently, at least in the minds of certain members of City Staff, there were some exceptions to the rule that required further examination. And these would be business licensing fees. They are different than picnic table fees, or sign hanging fees, and couldn't be considered a part of the previous decision. Or so they felt. And that was what was being discussed last night.

To hear it from Joe Mosca, those businesses whose fees would have gone up - despite previous assurances that they wouldn't - should not consider it to be an increase. Rather the reason you would have been paying higher fees is because they have actually gone down. But they really have gone down because the overall average combined fee costs (and with fewer categories, mind you), is less. And just because your business license fees have gone up (and there were quite a few that would have done just that) you shouldn't be concerned because the City would be taking in less money.

Obviously that would have gone over like a lead balloon while at the same time making previous promises not to raise fees a city-wide laughing stock. And adjustments were made to make sure no such embarrassment occurred, and that no fees were raised.

Out of the 4 Councilmembers attending this meeting only Mayor Mosca seemed to have a problem with it. His priority being the sanctity of the General Fund. His attempt to explain that just because fees are going up shouldn't be taken to mean that fees are going up was classic Joe.

But here's the thing that I don't quite get. We pay taxes to the City in order that things we need (or think we need) get done. And one of those things is processing fee applications. However, and somehow this one got by everyone, fee consultants somehow convinced the City Council that those wanting to do business here should not only pay their business fees, but also the costs of the employees that process fee paperwork.

So those commercial interests in town whose taxes pay for things like City employee salaries are now also expected to pay costs associated with City employee salaries a second time when they file the fee paperwork the City says they have to file in order to get a business license. And if businesses don't file their paperwork and cover the costs to cover the manpower of employees whose salaries they also pay for in taxes, well, the City gets unfriendly. It's kind of like being required to spend money in order to spend more money. Or else.

So what's the next step? An additional fee expense to cover the costs of processing fee expenses that you'd incur by sending in fee paperwork when you pay for a business license? The possibilities in the rabbit hole are endless.

Help Save The Arcadia Woodlands

Joe and John might not have been too excited about considering this matter last night (it wasn't agendized, you see), but the fight to save the Arcadia Woodlands goes on. At Highland Oaks Elementary School in Arcadia there will be a public hearing tomorrow evening on this crisis at 7PM. This could be one of the last chances to help save this 11 acre grove of sycamore and 100 year old oak trees from the buzz saws of the LA County Public Works Department.

For the Green Committee it might all be about high-density development, but there are still some of us around who believe that a more true ecological concern is saving God's beautiful creations for future generations.


  1. It is now time to dance on Sprockets, unt zo we will all be going to Highland Oaks to attend the meeting on preserving the last vestiges of nature's gifts within city limits. Remember! This area is also a watershed for Sierra Madre's dwindling supply. One hand washes the other, yah?

  2. Joe Mosca at times seems to be just one silly whirlwind of nonsense!

    However.......if left unchecked he becomes a tornado of destruction.

    Highland Oaks School.....just a few blocks out of Sierra Madre.....7:00 pm tomorrow night.
    Get on over there and help Caroline Brown and friends save the woodlands. It's not only the right thing to do, it's very important to Sierra Madre's water issues. BE THERE.

  3. So Joe wants businesses to pay the city to take their money?

    If that isn't a scam I don't know what is.

  4. More brilliance from this council.
    Charge the smallest businesses $60 more a year for their licenses, and let the biggest businesses have a break and pay less.
    What is there to say?
    As Buchanan put it, it's a "relatively small increase". Good thing for him he's so comfortable in his corporate nest that he cannot imagine $60 mattering.

  5. certainly Joe can't be as dense and hapazard thinking as he talks and thinks....can he?

    if so, the poor boy has publically maxed out his career because at his age and with his basically zero experience in politics, even blatantly stupid reasoning can only take you so far in a career

    bottom lime, Joe, Buchanan and Moran all are in align with SCAG long term census goals and have to in the short term - start the process.

    Change the DSP
    Build a new water infrastructure.

    However, Buchanan / Mosca both lied about impending doom and collapse of the water supply and meanwhile, behind closed doors, they both were working along selected City staff to pursue funds (because of the water tax hike) to build pet pork projects...almost payoffs for support...for a new 7 million dollar library...a $ 50,000 city hall countertop.....

    fact is, Buchanan/Mosca/Moran all three lied to their neighbors about the water tax hike and the City Attorney murked along in the gray area of the law...just to mislead the citizens about the water tax hike and still to this day, they all proceed along with pushing the water tax to build an infrastructure that will be build out ready for large scale development in a few years

    regarding the fees, I had a neighbor who did a remodel addition to his garage - the city inspector signed off on the drawings and when the final inspection was completed, the Very Same Inspector now denied the final permit despite signing off on the drawings and plans a year earlier

    the Inspector told my friend that a "new permit fee" was required to be paid at city hall

  6. Josh Moran was saying some thoughtful things last night, like the fee hike hurts the mom & pop operations, but when push comes to shove, he votes with his boys.

    Has he ever, once, not voted with John and Joe?


    He talks opposition once in a while, but does not act on it.

  7. What kind of shenanigan dance was this? No one knew the numbers of businesses that would have to pay more, the number that would have to pay less. There were a lot of 'many's and 'most's and 'some's thrown around, same old b.s. about claiming a majority while not having any real facts. No one in city hall had the time to count?

  8. Apparently Josh was traipsing about town and going into small businesses and assuring them he'd be their hero on the fee increases. What a sad state of affairs.

  9. I think in another life Joe was a snake oil salesman...a grifter and a Bernie Madoff type

    Oh wait, that's this life

    Only a deceitful person with a predetermined plan would select a city move into and then within hours automatically start running for council and without even spending a little time to understand the city, Mosca decides he knows what is best for the city and that is to position the city so it can absorb another 9,000 residents over the next 20 years.

    That's Joe Mosca's vision and Buchanan is his mentor.

    Somebody tell me, just how much time off work does Buchanan / Mosca receive from their employers, both energy companies who benefit from Mosca / Buchanan's SCAG alignments, how much time off do the energy companies give Buchanan / Mosca to work inside Sierra Madre?

    Josh Moran, despite being bascially worthless with contributions on the council, Moran sells home mortages and is rubber stamping any actions that pertain to development and Moran was standing along side Buchanan/Mosca with LIES about our ecological disaster of water pipes and that a water tax is an immediate issue and the whole time, it was a non issue.

    It was the pet pork projects being spearheaded by Buchanan / Mosca.

    It's no surprise that Buchanan's supporters are Friends of the Library and for remaining silent on the water tax hike, the libary was getting 7 million dollars - basically a fraud and I'm sure a wing was promised to be named after Buchanan - I propose the toilets to be named after the Mayor and Mayor Pro Temp - both who lied to us repeatedly and were doing whatever they wanted whenever they wanted and not giving a rats axe about the people or the City.

  10. A Business Owner and Property Owner who is FEEd to deathDecember 15, 2010 at 8:40 AM

    Finally, someone at City Hall gets it! The departments at City Hall should be self sustaining. Why should the tax payers (property owners) subsidize someone’s business? A business is a business. It is no different than the new 1 Carter property owners paying the full cost of developing their property. Why should a large business successful pay more to have their business license processed than a small struggling one. The small business instead of complaining should go talk to the successful business and get some pointers and make changes in their business model. I am fed up with the people who are successful always being expected to pay more. Dam& it they have worked for it and they are paying more than their fair share. As for the non profits and their fund raisers ….they need to factor all the costs into their fund raiser. If it doesn’t pencil out, then do something else. For example the SM Community Nursery School pays a couple of hundred dollars for the use of Sierra Vista Park, but they make over $37,000. The City should not have said that fees are not going up. They should have said we are changing the structure and the fees are changing for businesses.

  11. There were a couple of very interesting remarks by the city manager in that whirlwind goals wrap up at the end of the meeting.
    One was that the General Plan Committee has been making slower than expected progress. Period. No mention that it is the staff's unwillingness to meet that caused that.
    The other was a quickly said sentence along the lines of looking into "long term capital funding" for streets and water.
    Yes indeed. Looking into it.

  12. so, is there anybody left in town that Joe hasn't lied to or mislead?

    he's like a Borg on Star Trek

    he arrives - he consumes all that is good, destroys what he found and moves on to the next gig

    and Josh, what a laughable dude. Just a couple years ago he was in front of the Council and posting on blogs that we, meaning his realtor friends, should start boycotting Sierra Madre businesses who advertised in a paper that supported Measure V.

    yeah, Josh, the party dude who doesn't believe in free speech and defines civility as you listening to him rant and for you to be quiet and go away.

    for a while, I kinda hoped that Josh wouldn't be such a pansy lightweight and would be a turncoat to Mosca / Buchanan, but in the end, he aligns with Buchanan / Mosca with their agenda.

    lest we all forget, Moran sells home mortages, was a real estate agent, his Mom is a real estate agent and an overwhelming majority of his closest supporters and backers are in the real estate field.

    at least Josh was honest with his intent to be unethical on the Council. He publically stated that he intended all along to put his friends and associates on city committees.

    and Mosca is still plugging away with dismantling the downtown plan so a new and improved plan is in place for SCAG

    hopefully the next Council can undo all the damaage Buchanan / Mosca are planning

    and what is poor Nancy Walsh going to do when she is confronted with the next council, $ 50 bet that she resigns when Buchanan or Mosca's terms end.

  13. Joe's little fee chat was not out of character for him. After all, promising to vote against the DSP and then casting a vote that guaranteed its survival should have been enough for anyone. But then again, saying fees are going down when so many would have been actually charged more is a hoot, I must admit. Maybe we should buy him a red rubber nose for Christmas. He certainly woke up as a clown this morning.

  14. 8:40 makes sense.

  15. 8:40, I get the point, but do you really think it's reasonable to assume that because someone has a more modest success that means they don't work hard? I am also a business owner and property owner who is paying too many damn fees, made all the worse by what I see as gross overpayment of city staff salaries.
    Surely there are better ways than jacking up the costs for the smallest businesses - those businesses automatically use far less of the city services than do larger businesses.

  16. They start talking bonds and we start talking the ballot, 8:47. There is no way they are going to put MY city in that kind of debt.

  17. Buchanan is lining up the next big study consultant expenditure, the Real Economic Analysis of the Potential of this town.
    But don't forget, he loves Sierra Madre - just get Real Data on the economic potential.

  18. Poster 8:38--it is not time off to work inside Sierra Madre--in reality it is time on.

  19. 8:52, sign me up.

  20. consultants are a parasitic diseaseDecember 15, 2010 at 9:00 AM

    When did it become OK to pay around $100,000 a year plus spectacular benefits for people to do some of their job description and then farm out the rest, the tough stuff?

  21. I'm going into the bumpersticker business. My first one is going to print in a week or so. It will say:

    "High Density Development is not Green, John."

    I'll post the address and cost here on The Tattler soon.

  22. The council couldn't get away fast enough from two items last night, when MacGillivre suggested they send a letter to help the oaks, and when Delmer asked questions about Walsh's absence and the removal of the water rate stick up from the agenda. Joe said a sentence or 2 to Delmer, but later engaged in lengthy discussion with Mr. Bush during public comment.
    Sloppy to say the least.

  23. Business is hard everywhere, and always has been hardest for underfunded small businesses (9 out of 10 fail within the first year--an old adage but still true I imagine).

    Folks have a glorified idea of what it is to be in business for yourself. I remember my dad, self-employed, honest and in a very specialized busines niche, told me when I said I wanted to be in business for myself, that I didn't want a boss--"When you are in business for yourself everyone is your boss."

    I spent $40 to post a business card in the Sierra Madre News (remember when these were printed around the city calendar--25 years ago) and decided not to open up in Sierra Madre--my 'advert' only generated 3 phone calls. I went to So. Pas and Pasadena and was successful for the duration.

    Sierra Madre can not and never did support much of a business base. I do try to spend a few dollars a day/week in town. A few years back I saw a campaign in Costa Mesa that said Work Where You Must But Shop Where You Live! Off to get a coffee at Bean Town or Mary's.

  24. Sierra Madre should be a no consultant zone.

    We have very smart and accomplished people here.

    Encourage volunteers.

    One exception: the forensic audit.

  25. World Salsa Championshipc start tomorrow. Is Sierra Madre represented? LOL

  26. According to Mosca, Walsh sent a letter months ago telling them she had an "important engagement" on that date.
    As Barbara Leigh pointed out, and cell phones were not possible.
    So if it was an "important engagement" that she knew about for months, it was NOT an emergency, and if there had been the will to make it work, it could have worked.
    She could have phoned it in.

  27. During the discussion of the LowMod housing, did anyone here the words covenant or dedicated?
    No, I didn't think so. Now that's a hustle.

  28. 8:52 I totally agree with you. There are too many staff. They are over paid and produce very little. Their numbers grow every year and so the PEERS and PERKS that go along with their jobs. How do we, the "money tree" cut back on their numbers? Too many groups in town "seniors",familys, and business all have their hands out for more services. Vans for ield trips for kids and seniors. Give me a break.

  29. Get ready y'all.
    Buchanan, the Downtown Specific Plan and hillside development advocate, will be mayor shortly.
    Long term capital funding and realizing the economic potential of town are high on his agenda.

  30. I'll give you an example of a superflous staffer. The seniors have a newsletter which used to be written by a volunteer. It is now written by paid staff. Hart House, where most senior meetings and events are held, is staffed by a fulltime staffer who "organizes" outings, lunches, and activities. Seniors have their own commission. All commission meetings are attended by (at minimum) two paid staffers. I suspect more paid staff time is devoted to the care and maintenance of seniors that to any other group in town. I find this anoying in that seniors are the folks with the most time to devote to volunteer activities and already attend most of the activities and commission meetings. This is a case of finding things for staff to do in order to justify paying them.

  31. Yep that's right. Take established volunteer activities and events so you can hire more people. Way to go Sierra Madre. When are the people going to stand up and say...WE WANT OUR EVENTS BACK?

  32. If you want to see Green John in action go look at One Carter. His idea of Green is pulling down ancint woodlands and replacing them with McMansions with solar panels. His hostility to any discussion of the Arcadia Woodlands last night should be taken as an indication of where he really is on this issue. With developers all the way. His so-called Green Committee is just an attempt to monkey wrench the Planning Commission. Just like he did with the General Plan Update Steering Committee.

    Buchanan is a consummate phony.

  33. 10:08, consumate and destructive.

  34. Buchanan bears watching 10:08, that's for sure. It must bee seen to that his mayorship is an ineffective as possible.

  35. One of Babblin' John's best moments last night was when he made the remarks about Sierra Madre voters turning up for elections. A shoring up as it were of his greatest claim to fame, his most oft repeated defense:
    I was elected.
    But he was talking about larger elections, right?
    Anybody got the true story about how many people voted him into office, percentage wise of registered voters?

  36. an acronym that makes senseDecember 15, 2010 at 10:48 AM

    8:56, The Real Economic Analysis of the Potential of this town????
    Buchanan wants to

  37. As Mayor Mosca raises (rates and fees, the UUT), Mayor John will turn back (Measure V) and re-bond (water infrastructure and streets, and library).

  38. Oh, was Walsh missing at the Council Meeting last night? Who could tell? Although it was nice not to see the distainful looks Walsh puts on when MacGillivray is talking.

    I'm darned sure MaryAnn knew very well that the Council couldn't take action on the Oaks, but pretty clever of her to bring it up at the end of the meeting, and got the desired result. It remains to be seen who on the Council writes to the Supervisor.

    By the way, that was probably the most boring meeting I've seen in a long time. It seems MaryAnn was the only one to ask thoughtful questions. I think the gang of 3 forgot to put on their thinking caps or read the material before the meeting. YAWN!

  39. Inquiry. Please tell me:December 15, 2010 at 11:44 AM

    If this is just a scheme by the development crowd to rid the city of most of the small businesses to make way for mixed use, multi story development, both down town and city wide?
    Seems to me, there has to be an ulterior motive for these actions.
    Many of these small businesses are located on prime property.

    Thanks in advance for any comments on this question.

  40. Buchanan has been a disaster for Sierra Madre.
    When he is finally termed out, we can add up the damages.

  41. Concerned& appalled!!!!!!!!!!!!December 15, 2010 at 12:00 PM

    Gov. elect Jerry Brown in a statement in Los Angeles:
    announces the disastrous condition of the California economy. He says it is worse than in the 1930's depression years.
    Speculation is that this is the beginning of a drastic economic belt tightening i.e.: INCREASED TAXES.
    This comes at a time that we are being hustled to pay higher water rates and fees right here in Sierra Madre.
    The question is: why is the gang of 4 taking this aggressive tack against our pocketbooks?

  42. Small businesses and retired residents are in the middle of the bullseye. This is a classic gentrification strategy.

  43. The small "quaint" businesses downtown will be essential for bringing in those who love the small town atmosphere. Most likely the Montecito area is where the big development will happen. That area is ripe for mixed use condos and big business. Now, if we could just get rid of Measure V.

  44. 10:53, yes that meeting set a new level of dull, but it made up for that in the richness of the many, many hypocrisies.
    Moran using Patch as a reference when he sited unemployment figures. As if Patch were the original source.
    Buch saying there might be an item for the Green Comm. to consider later in the evening. Might, not full speed ahead, will and I will see to it.
    Joe saying that thew water rate boondoggle had to be rescheduled because Walsh had her engagement and she had to be there because she was the "moving party at the last meeting", the first reading. We all know how much she contributed t that. C'mon, since when does that make it necessary that she be in person at the second reading. Get a phone, get a clue.
    I'm going to get flack for this one, but the ever self congratulating Rose Float people, with the Mission - any native people's corpses being dragged behind it?
    Elaine on the slowness of the General Plan Steering Committee, which everyone knows has been blocked from meeting by her.
    And of course the hypocrisy Sir Eric culled for his title: We're not raising the fees. Now if your a small business, give us more.
    Moran on the mom & pop operations, which he threw under the bus.
    Buch ready to throw down that its appropriate for the Green Committee to see any code amendments BEFORE the planning commission. He was insistent. Bet he smiles mighty big at the Planning Commissioners.

    And that's just a sampling.

  45. 12 o'clock: Government is trying to take care of its own. Rather than cutting back and making due with what they already have, taxes, fees and whatever else all have to go up so government shouldn't have to suffer the same kinds of problems those in the private sector are syffering. That they act like they are entitued to it makes it even worse.

  46. True 12:03,
    "Small businesses and retired residents are in the middle of the bullseye. This is a classic gentrification strategy."

  47. Found this on yesterdays article, the last post:
    "The CA Farmer's Market wants a free location with good parking and the city to pay for baracade drop off and pick up, police manned baracades, trash collection, and porta potties. In turn The CA Farmers Market will pay the city $500 for the first year or $10 a week. What business in town gets those subsidies????
    Please name just one."
    So I want to ask, what business license fee does this outfit pay? A decrease as of last night?

  48. What was that about the reason for needing Walsh?
    Because she was at the first reading, and she called for the reading, or the vote, or?
    That's a rule I've never heard of before.

  49. Last night was a poor performance for the Gang Of Four. They must have been drinking before the meeting.

  50. Gang of 4 minus the one: among the many possible reasons you could not engage in a conference call was that you were somewhere where the public could not attend the site from where you were attending the CC meeting via a conference call. This is a requirement!

    Attendance at a family member's Chirstmas pagent is one possiblity but also a dance rehersal for an important performance for which your absence would eliminate you from participating, or the performance itself. What's your guess?

  51. Ms. Walsh is a voluteer. She should be forgiven the absence of an occasional Council Meeting. Especially a Council Meeting for which she gave adequate and written notice. It doesn't matter where she was or what she was doing, she gave the Mayor her notice that she would not be available, in person and presumably unable telephonically as well.

    What is not nearly so clear is why, if the Mayor knew he needed a 4/5 vote at the 2nd reading of the water rate increse, and Nancy was the key vote, WHY did he schedule the 1st reading on November 23rd?

    So, give Ms. Walsh a break. She did her part. Once again the Mayor thought he could make up the rules.

  52. I will give Ms. Walsh a break when she wakes up to the fact that she's in over her head and that Buchanan tricked her into running for something she is not able to do. It's bad for her. And the town.

  53. Good question 2:08, why did Joe do that knowing what the timing would be.
    Scared, or arrogant?

  54. What was the reason Councilmember Buchanan fought so hard to say that the Green Committee had to be consulted first about code amendments? He really fought the idea of the Planning Commission, and kept saying The green Committee first, the Green Committee first. It has to be the Green Committee. He said it so many times it kind of woke me up out of that council induced stupor. Buchanan's got a little something going on with that committee.

  55. For what it's worth, the Green Committee is advisory to the City Council, not the Planning Commission.

  56. Yes 2:36, but both bodies will need to study any code amendments. Buchanan was ready for a throw down over who got to see the code amendment material first. Watch the replay. Petulant doesn't begin to describe it.

  57. Joe used Nancy's absence to concoct a tale about why the water rate vote had to be delayed. I seriously doubt there was any truth to it.

  58. The Green Committee isn't held in very high esteem by anyone except Buchanan. Perhaps he's trying to inflate their significance much as he attempts to do with his own.

    The Planning Commission, on the other hand, is probably the most professional that the city's ever seen - thanks to the Zimmerman, Watts, MacGillivray Council appointments.

  59. if city hall staff would focus a little closer on their actual duties instead of urban planning and creating laundry lists of to do lists, they might actually get real work done

    and if Mosca/Buchanan - Buchanan/Mosca would stop with all of the petty fishing exhibition assignments, all related to their goal to invalidate Measure V, just like they appear to have done with the water tax hike petitions, interesting as how "no accountablity" certainly pertains to this City Council and the one we had about 8 years ago

    meet the new boss - same as the old boss

    ex-Mayor Doyle, who is the lobbyist for the building industry has long been a supporter and architect and supporter of SCAG's census goal of 20,000 people in Sierra Madre.

    Buchanan works as a lobbyist lawyer for Edison.

    Mosca works as a public relations lawyer for another utility company and both employers directly benefit from Buchanan/Mosca bandwagon support of SCAG and demolishing the DSP.

    Councilman Moran sells real estate loans and his direct family sells real estate. If anything, he should recuse himself from any conversation regarding development as an appearance of bias.

    Moran said he is unbiased and fair, but the guy stated at a public meeting that he has no intention of being fair and unbiased because he admitted publically that he would use his Council position to select his friends and associates on City Committtees, regardless of who actually volunteers and qualifications.

    This reeks of a bad D movie and scalawags and carpetbaggers. It could star Kevin Dunn as John Buchanan, that would be hilarious to see Kevin imitate Buchanan.

  60. Hey, did any of you old timers pick up on the Onyx architect? $4,000 to make new city hall doors for the disabled. Onyx was around the Congregational Church, and Greg galletly, right?

  61. need a city favor? 3 of our Councilmembers are willing to listen

  62. has Buchanan ever explained about how the mysteriously appeared new 7 million dollar library was ever a part the water tax increase?

    didn't Buchanan say that we are in serious danger and that this water tax increase needs to be done immediately and at the same time, he was plotting and looking for state bonds or funds to pay for the library

    the dude can't focus on one issue can he?

    except development, that is his focus because it benefits his employer, he ought to recuse himself because his employer benefits from any decision or planning dealing with new development

  63. The only explanation for the rather dreadful,muddled and bewildering performance by the addled "4" is that even they know they must misrepresent their agenda through misdirection,lies and falsehoods.Large Development is the name of the game and it is now or never for the folks who wish to preserve what we still call our home town and support the efforts to stop the encroachment of Mega Development Interest.

  64. Onyx is connected to Ambassador West, one of Galletly's failures.

  65. Look what a google search turned up on Onyx:
    Thus Spoke The Architect
    The Sierra Madre Tattler

  66. Onyx also did the Hart House and possibly the Sierra Madre Room. With so many local architects why can't the city hire local?

  67. And we'rer back to the comment at 12:03:
    "Small businesses and retired residents are in the middle of the bullseye. This is a classic gentrification strategy."

  68. Thanks for the Tattler reference. Good article, and sneaky Onyx.

  69. Time for another protest. Protest that there is a conflict of interest with Joe, john and Moran that they are working for their employers and against their city.


  70. Someone should seriously look into the connections between Galetely and Rob Stockley and Bart Doyle and Glenn Lambdin.

    Stockley was involved in a loan scandal involving Dorn Platz.

    Congregational Church was involved with Dorn Platz, they were supporters of the Maranantha High School at One Carter project.
    Some people suspect that that MHS at One Carter was never going to happen, and Doyle and gang knew it, and scammed the Cong people and the Maranantha student's parents.
    The plan was to build big homes all along.

  71. You know the wolf in sheeps clothingDecember 15, 2010 at 6:38 PM

    2:44 You are so right!

    Nancy was used by Joe. He does not care about where she is or what she wrote. She is another excuse for him. He has a reputation as a liar with big blue eyes.

    And, she will never call him on that. She will back him up. Poor lady.

  72. Fom the Tower of Babble to Elmer Fudd

  73. after we caught Mayor Mosca, Mayor Pro Tem Buchanan and Councilman Moran lying to us repeatedly about impending doom and why we must have a water tax hike today, we caught them all in a giant lie in which they were pushing the disaster claims so that they would qualify for state funds for frivilous pet projects like a new 7 million dollar library and a 50,000 countertop at City Hall.

    every Council meeting needs have this mentioned by a Citizen and why hasn't this Council held itself accountable for shady ethics and basically fraudently attempting to secure state funds under false pretense, Buahanan / Mosca / Moran were holding emergency meetings and instructing the City Attorney to skate the law and get the water tax done and providing misleading public records to disuade a petition against the water tax increase.

    simple questions during public comments.

    Councilman Buchanan, why were you lying to us about impending doom and the water tax increase meanwhile you were secretly working on a 7 million dollar library? Was this done in open Council sessions or did you ever mention this in your past Coummunity Update Comments?

    Just tell us this, why the lies?

    Councilman Moran, would you please explain your public statement where you openly admited that you were first going to put your friends and supporters on committees.

    Councilman Mosca, given the perception that you don't have Sierra Madre's best interests at heart and support SCAG's census goals of 20,000 residents in Sierra Madre, why would you as Mayor lie to us about impending doom and moving full steam ahead regardless of public opinion and legal processes with your tax hike and why after misleading and distorting the facts,

    why Mayor Mosca would you then approve the city staff seeking of funds for a 7 million dollar library and a $50,000 counter top which was based on fooling the public with a purposely misleading and disaster theme of failing pipes and explosion of water....why were you lying to us?

    every Council meeting somebody needs to call them on their lies so they don't think that no comment means approval - that's how they operate

    eventually word will get around that Moran wants just his buddies on Committees, Mosca/Buchanan were lying about disaster while plotting an 7 million dollar libary (in this economy - what a pair of idiots) and small favors like a $50k fancy new counter top for City Hall for supporting every whim and fancy of Buchanan / Mosca.

    Tell me again, why are we even trusting these guys for one second and not hounding them at Council meetings.

    They can make decisions I don't agree with, but with one of the biggest decisions and crossroads in Sierra Madre, the fact that all three lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and lied and finally after caught - just starting ignoring the fact that they lied and lied

    Moe, Larry and Curley - at least they were honest and bumbling - our version of the Three Stoogers are bumbling, deceptive and lying to us

  74. is it just me or has there been one council meeting that Josh Moran and Nancy Walsh has shown any sembelence of being prepared or having read the Council packet?

    I guess they don't need to because they may ask a mundane snooze question or "I wuz elected so I gets to dos what I wants" duh duh duh comments and then rubber stamps whichever way Buchanan / Mosca votes.

    Mocsa / Buchanan loves having two Councilmembers that nothing to say, nothing to contribute, never the opposing view, never an opposing vote or intellegent thought that may challenge Buchanan / Mosca.

    I'm justing waiting for Josh Moran to lose a Council document and tell us that his dog ate it.

  75. back when Marantha first pursed the 1 Carter property, the then Principal was quoted with something to the effect that she went up on the property and God told her that was the school should be located, divine intervention and inspiration.

    Expect God forgot that he was putting a Christian school in the middle of a flood and fire zone.

    Greg Gantelly or whatever his name is, GG was on the Board or connected to Maranatha and he threw full support into the silly notion that a high school was gong to build at 1 Carter.

    Guess who bought 1 Carter when the school bailed?

    And GG denied be a crook - didn't just about every project he's done he's been sued on?

    I guess God is okay with stupid millionaries getting slammed by mudslides and fires and then they'll just sue Sierra Madre.

  76. hey 9:07 am, Starbucks is also a local coffeeshop and deserve our support.

    Village Pizzaeria hasn't been the same since
    Tammy owned it, do the new owners live here in town because I can't support them if they don't live here.

    while you are up at Mary's, Josh Moran has a nameplate on the counter, laughing at us because while we make fun of him using Mary's as his business office, he actually did use Mary's as his office to peddle home loans.

    I was up there one time and he was pitching the phone, I made it a point to sit next to him started talking to everyone. He looked at me like I was an annoyance and I thought, "what an axehole, what dork thinks he has office and converstaion privileges at a diner?"

    And now we have Councildork Moran.

    Aren't we lucky?


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