Thursday, June 28, 2012

Kurt Zimmerman on the Kensington Project and Measure V

(Mod: After hearing so many different and largely erroneous interpretations of Measure V from various Colantuono & Levin hirelings and City Staff personnel, it was refreshing to get the real story from our former Mayor Kurt Zimmerman at Tuesday evening's City Council meeting. His talk did not disappoint, and the truth in what he had to say cut straight through the fog bank emanating from those we pay to efficiently take care of our business, but rarely do. Somehow there are always difficulties, diversions and time consuming complications. Especially when the topic has something to do with development. Here are Kurt's observations in their entirety.)

Good evening Mayor Moran and Council Members. I thank you for this opportunity to address the Council on this extraordinarily important agenda item.

I appear first to reaffirm my support for the Assisted Living Facility project. This project represents what I believe is our community's last, best hope to abate the blight of what was once the skilled nursing facility. And, for those of you still deciding whether to support or oppose this project, I would ask that you consider that someday your parents, your spouse or you, yourself might need the services of, and actually live in such a facility.

More importantly, I appear this evening to request that the City Council fully comply with and implement Measure V, the 2-30-13 Initiative. Specifically, I am requesting that the voters be allowed to exercise their Measure V rights to vote on whether the project can exceed the Initiative's prohibition on development exceeding thirteen dwelling units per acre in our downtown.

As someone who was actually involved with the drafting of Measure V, I can attest that it was intended to apply to a myriad of proposed developments in the downtown core including developments such as this project. And my interpretation is echoed by the Initiative's principal drafter, Chris Sutton.

Both the letter and the spirit of Measure V support my interpretation. After all, the definition of a dwelling unit is, "one or more rooms in a building designed and intended to be used as living quarters by one person or a family." Clearly the rooms in this project are dwelling units.

Lest there be any doubt, however, Measure V contains findings that require it be interpreted broadly to effectuate its twin purposes of "Preserving the small town character of downtown Sierra Madre" and including the voters in "major decisions affecting our downtown."

I would be remiss, however, if I did not mention the competing and belated interpretation if the Initiative -- namely, that Measure V does not apply because the rooms in the project are not dwelling units. Specifically, the rooms are not dwelling units because they lack a kitchen.

For the following reasons, it is my hope that this Council reject this new interpretation -- really misinterpretation -- and expeditiously proceed with a Measure V compliant vote regarding the project.

First, as I just described, the new interpretation is inconsistent with the letter and spirit of Measure V. Indeed, Measure V does not require that dwelling units have kitchens nor does it even mention the word kitchen!

Second, this new interpretation of Measure V did not exist until it materialized in agenda reports this year in 2012. I ask this Council how could the voters, let alone the drafters of the Initiative, intend such an interpretation when it didn't exist until nearly five years after Measure V became the law in Sierra Madre? The voters of Sierra Madre have been accused of many things, but never being descendants of Nostradamus or relatives of Miss Cleo.

Third, the agenda report misinterprets the impact and intent of the Planning Commission's recent vote when it states that in approving the request for a conditional use permit, the Planning Commission was tacitly determining that Measure V does not apply to the project. Immediately following the Commission's vote, Planning Commissioner Vandevelde spoke to a reporter from the Sierra Madre Weekly, and described how in reality the Planning Commissioners hadn't really made up their minds. With respect to the project he said, "we don't know if it qualifies for the 13 dwelling units per acre."

Moreover, it is important to recall that the Planning Commission voted unanimously on January 19, 2012, to reject City Staff's proposed interpretation that the project's rooms were not dwelling units.

Finally, this new interpretation should be rejected because its only purpose appears to be the circumvention of Measure V to expedite approval of the project. Such circumvention is misguided and will (ironically) only ensure that the project will be soundly defeated at the polls. Why? Because the voters will not cast votes in favor of a project -- even a project they would otherwise support -- if they are denied the right they campaigned for and voted for to approve or reject projects that exceed 2 stories 30 feet 13 dwelling units per acre. Which is what a non-Measure V compliant ballot question would do. To do otherwise would encourage City Staff or developers to create fictitious exceptions to Measure V for the next proposed project to be constructed in our downtown.

Thank you for considering my remarks.

http://sierramadretattler.blogspot.com ------- Photo credit: Terry Miller

118 comments:

  1. Mr Zimmerman spoke very simply to explain Measure "V". Because it is a simple law! Drafted well and voted on by the citizens of Sierra Madre.
    Remember the people against the measure raised over $100,000 dollars (from realtors and developers) mainly out of town. The group for the Measure raised $28,000! The against kept the mailman busy with flyers being delivered it seemed like daily. Phone banks setup @ a local realtor office(caller I d worked) drove that. Concern to be sold off. Now the citizens have a project that will put Measure V to the vote. It has been along road. After 5 years of C & L working against this law, now coming up with a bogus way to define dwelling unit. No wonder "big red" was rude Tuesday night.

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  2. Big Red's job is to assist Mayor Kim Jong Moran in his lifelong quest to prevent the residents from exercising their rights to vote on downtown development. Why do you think he's willing to keep paying C&L all that money? When it comes to rights suppression in Sierra Madre, there is no limit to the amount of taxpayer money KJM is ready to pay.

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  3. Big Red is kinda cranky.

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  4. Pretty soon we are all going to know these words by heart:
    "one or more rooms in a building designed and intended to be used as living quarters by one person or a family."

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  5. Safe assumption - the city is lying.

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  6. City staff, and that includes the attorneys, has been trying to block the assisted living facility.
    City staff serves at the will of the council.
    Council, please ask city staff to read Measure V and follow what it says, exactly ad precisely.

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    Replies
    1. Once Billy came out and said he was in favor of the Kensington going to a vote, he became the enemy of Moran and that bunch. I am sure it never occurred to Billy that Sierra Madre is run by a bunch of totalitarians.

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  7. This behavior by the lawyers reminds me so much of the Carter hearings. Hundreds of residents asked Michael Colantuono to lead the way towards a good development plan, one that adhered to the law as spelled out in the Hillside Ordinance. Michael led the city in an opposite direction, and you can go up to the top of Baldwin to see the result.

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  8. Off topic, but what the hay, right? Anyone know anything about the massive presence of SMPD with guns drawn crawling all over Sturevant east of the Canon T yesterday afternoon?

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    1. Somebody didn't pay a parking ticket?

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    2. Some nut up on Vista Circle Dr. was shooting at neighbors with an air rifle.
      Don't think they even arrested him!

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    3. Damn!... I thought they had the cownapper cornered.

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  9. Bob was spotted!

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    1. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  10. Kurt's speech was a nice contrast to the distortions and obfuscations emananting from Big Red.

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    Replies
    1. We pay a lot of money for BS. The truth comes from volunteers.

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  11. I remember watching Kurt with his sophisticated demeanor and elegant language as CC and then Mayor. Contrast him to Joe, Johnny, now Josh and Nancy.

    Boggles the mind how voters could elect anyone beneath the intelligence,charm, education and critical thinking powers and ethics of Kurt.

    Even Harabedian does not come close. Kurt is humble. Which is why he is believable. He is not trying to make an impression, but a valid point.

    Thanks Kurt. You have always been the Citizen of the YEAR>

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  12. Colantuono and Levin think they are smarter than everyone else. No one else has an education, no one else understands municipal government practices, and no one else can parse a sentence. It's all too complicated and only they have the ability and experience to 'interpret' it.
    What a bunch of arrogant jerks.

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    Replies
    1. Soon everyone in town will know that if the City Council decides that they don't have to put a Measure V compliant question on the ballot for the Kensington, they are breaking the law. Then we can them start calling them the Crime Council.

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  13. Kurt smelled the stench of corruption when he became a councilman.He wisely suggested a forensic audit.This was,needless to say,was met with derision and horror by our establishment Rabble.Besides being inappropriate and unsupportable,the fact that all the records had been shredded was offered as the excuse for not having the audit!Is anyone surprised that people are beginning to see a pattern of abuse and corruption with each action taken by our City!The outrage will continue if we do nothing.The two stalwarts are beginning to pick away at the baloney offered at each public meeting and bully for them! Let's turn up the heat and let the lights in!

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    1. I always thought it was so weird that Buchanan relied on the "It's shredded" defense. Don't forensic accountants specialize in that kind of recovery? If checks were written, there are other records of transactions that a deranged employee would not be able to destroy. Yeah?

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  14. Kurt Zimmerman is correct: the voters of Sierra Madre are not descendents of Nostradamus or relatives of Miss Cleo. However, at least one of them (me) had a visit from an astral projection from the future. You see, when I voted for Measure V back in 2007, I knew that it would not apply to the Assisted Living Facility. Here is my true story.

    In 2007, before the Measure V vote, an astral projection from the future appeared to me and said that Measure V would not apply to the Assisted Living Facility that would be built in 2013 at the skilled nursing home site. The astral projection explained to me that there would be an exception for institutional buildings as set forth in a draft specific plan to be released in 2011.

    A few days later in 2007, the astral projection from the future reappeared to me. He said that actually, Measure V did not apply to the Assisted Living Facility because the rooms in the Assisted Living Facility were not dwelling units, subject to Measure V, but suites without kitchens. When I asked the astral projection where that interpretation came from, he said it would appear in a memo from Danny Castro to the Planning Commission in 2012. He explained that Danny Castro was a Planner from Beverly Hills that the City would hire a few years later and who would replace Matt Marquez.

    A few days later in 2007, the astral projection from the future reappeared to me and said "I'm sorry, in Janaury 2012 the Planning Commission will vote unanimously to reject Mr. Castro's interpretation of Measure V. Therefore, Measure V will apply to the Assisted Living Facility."

    A few days later in 2007, however, the astral projection from the future reappeared to me and said that the Planning Commission would change their collective minds in May 2012, and determine that Measure V did not apply because the rooms in the Assisted Living Facility were actually something called "conjugate housing." I asked the astral projection what "conjugate housing" meant. He said that "in the future, conjugate housing is a collection of rooms without microwaves." When I asked the astral projection why the Planning Commission would change their collective minds, he said that the Commissioners --except for Kevin Paschall -- were "big wussies," and "afraid of the Assistant City Attorney and the Commission's new Chairman Bob Spears."

    A few days later, the astral projection from the future reappeared to me and said that Measure V did not apply to the Assisted Living Facility because, according to the City's Congestion Management Plan, which would be submitted in June 2012, the Assisted Living Facility was actually "Group Housing." When I asked the astral projection what is "Group Housing," he explained that it was a term that Mr. Castro would just make up because it sounded official.

    Finally, a few days before the Measure V vote, the astral projection from the future reappeared to me and said that Measure V did not apply to the Assisted Living Facility because future Mayor Moran would decide in July 2012 that he did not want the Measure to apply to the project. (He also told me that the voters would elect an ill-tempered, cha cha dancer. I thought he meant that Joe was going to be re-elected; so I didn't ask for clarification).

    Now you understand why when I voted in favor of Measure V five years ago, I knew the Measure would not apply to the Assisted Living Facility.

    Signed,

    Prescient Voter

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    1. This is quite a post, and certainly one does need to find out what is going to happen in the future in order to know how to vote in Sierra Madre. But was there any word on when Josh is going to call off his boycott of Sierra Madre downtown businesses? It has been going on now since 2006 , and it is pretty much killing off everything.

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    2. Are you sure the astral projection said 'conjugate housng" and not 'congregate housing'?

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    3. I think it was "conjugal housing" or "visits", or something like that.

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  15. 10:50. Best post ever. And you make a very good point. The relevant inquiry is what did the voters intend. Clearly, they didn't intend that there would be an exception for an institution or suites, or conjugate housing since those exceptions didn't exist back in 2007.

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    1. Terrific post .... the best definition of hoaxers,swindlers and flimflam artist I have ever seen.

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  16. 10:58. I think you're missing the point of 10:50's post. The City is taking the posiiton that the voters knew that Measure V would not apply to the ALF back in 2007 based on the convoluted exceptions that they ginned up in 2012.

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    1. That sounds like the water rate increase. It was the duty of the ratepayers to know that it was really about bonds even when Mayor Mosca and his Fabulous Agua Council Chorus was saying it was about old pipes. Just ask Bill Coburn!

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  17. I think the City has painted itself into a corner. Even Council member Harabedian conceded that the voters intent is controlling. There's no way the voters intended to carve out an exception for suites, conjugate living space or group homes since those exceptions didn't exist back in 07.

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  18. It is all Colontuono BS. They make this crap up, and then dare anyone to challenge it. Same nonsense over and over. We really do need to call their bluff.

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  19. Moran's boycott killed off Cafe 322. They once bought an ad in the Observer.

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    1. Bad food killed off 322.

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    2. Video killed the Radio Star.

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    3. I thought it was the cops parked across the street from Cafe 322 that killed the place. They were stopping almost everyone who ate there on some nights.

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  20. Thanks Poster 10:50 for the chronology of the City's BS. I thought we've been talking about rooms vs. suites, but you're right, C&L and Castro keep redefining the "living spaces" in the ALF to avoid the inevitable conclusion that they are, indeed, dwelling units.

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  21. The Planning Commissioners really are a bunch of wussies, if they believe whatever BS Colantuono & Levin tell them.

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  22. Institutional space
    Suites
    Conjugative living spaces
    Group housing

    You guys are right. C&L and Danny Castro are making this s---t up as they go along.

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  23. I think the problem for C&L was that the Planning Commission unamimously rejected the interpretation that the suites are not dwelling units because they lack bathrooms. Accordingly, C&L had to call the rooms something else -- conjugatve living or group housing.

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    1. Does it ever occur to them to tell the truth?

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    2. Apparently not.

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    3. Actually all of the "suites" have bathrooms "en suite". It's the counters with electrical plugs and the "no we can't provide them" microwaves that make a "suite" a home. So granny can brew coffee, plug in her toaster oven, and cook lunch in the microwave that provide the wink, wink, nod, nod.

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  24. there outta be a lawJune 28, 2012 at 12:41 PM

    Dum question: Along the lines of "telling the truth" isn't there a law anywhere in Calif that you cannot just have records disappear, and when you need an audit it cannot be shredded? When Kurt asked for an audit, it was obvious that when he could not get it, there was a reason it was GONE. Nothing was done...?!

    Anyone remember WATERGATE?

    The water, C and L, the Police, Measure V, Carter, Wine Tasting Room, Kensington,
    the corruptions goes on while we laugh at josh and nancy and they get deeper in do do....???

    no stopping all this?

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    1. The term used was forensic audit. That is the kind you do when a crime may have been committed. Like when all of the records all somehow disappeared, and nobody knows how the money was spent. Standard and Poore's dropped our bond rating to somewhere between mud and dust when that happened. Didn't seem to phase anyone in City Hall, though. Just as long as they get their paycheck and every other Friday off, life is good.

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  25. Next there will be a throw down over the adjective "living" in "living quarters."
    C & L will jump on Billy's stats about occupancy rate, average age, average stay, and work the angle on what living exactly means.
    Or, maybe they'll just settle for "or" as their next target.

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  26. Prescient voter here, Perhaps it was "congregate" and not "conjugate" or "conjugal" The astral body had a pretty bad lisp. Feel free Mod to change conjugate to congregate in my post.

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    1. If it is conjugal then they had damn well better be units. And with a door.

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    2. "Go rent a room!"

      And get off my lawn!

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  27. All of you angry voters need to show up to the next council meeting to support Kurt. Except for MaryAnn, nobody else was there to speak out in favor of putting the ALF on the ballot. I mean nobody!

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    1. Is the scolding effective? No.
      People will go when they feel they must.
      Or when someone takes it upon themselves to get a phone tree going.
      But the "You should, you should" might be counter productive.
      Besides, many of us who participate in the only free press in Sierra Madre have served lots of time in those chambers already.

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  28. Kurt was polite, but he paints a picture of a planning Commission, which except for Kevin Paschall, appear pretty incompetent.

    How do you vote to reject the City's goofball interpretation of Measure V in Janaury and then vote to affirm it in May? Really???????

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  29. 2:48. Actually it's worse than that. First, the Planning Commission found that Measure V applied to the project -- i.e., that the project's room were dwelling units. Then, the Planning Commission found that the project's rooms were not dwelling units. Then, one of the Commissiooner's told a reporter that the Commission had not really decided whether the rooms were or were not dwelling units. With the exceptionof Paschall, the Commissioners really are incompetent.

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    1. The Commissioners are not lawyers, they are experts on buildings and city regulations. They were put into the position of having to make judgements on what are really legal questions. Which was unfair. But the City Attorney needed that Background for the big show with the City Council. This was all carefully planned.

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    2. I agree. They should not have been put into that position. They were set up.

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    3. They are not incompetent. They have tasks set before them and have to give decisions that they all know, very well, can be overturn or completely ignored by the council, without any reason.
      At this point everyone can figure out that the city staff intends to make the Kensington fail, for whatever agenda is driving that. But it's not the fault of the planning commission that the language was so tortured that it became impossible to get out from under the lawyer stew.

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  30. I think the Commissioners were, are terrified of the Assistant City Attorney. One closed session with that guy and all of them (except for Kevin) are peeing in their pants.

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    1. Who, that pencil necked little dude? G'wan with you.

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    2. Who, Sparky? He wouldn't hurt a fly.

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    3. If that's what you really think 2:56, then you don't know one planning commissioner. Not one. And you have never paid close attention to their deliberations either.

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    4. 2:56 lives under a bridge and eats skunks for lunch.

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  31. Congratulations, Tattler! Mr. Crawford, your esteemed blog just passed 900,000 hits. Nicely done.

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    1. Thanks! Averaging about 53,000 hits a month now, which isn't too bad for a blog that covers a little city of less than 11,000 folks. We'll be at a million by September.

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  32. pfffff averaging 53,000 hits a month....whoppee dee doo

    Beth Buck had over 10 million hits a month with downtown dirt according to her own research statistics

    and Susan Henderson claims a weekly distribution of 10,000

    but with 9 readers

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    1. Susan's other 9,991 copies are quickly transferred 20 at a time by caring Sierra Madre citizens from rusty old newsracks to well-maintained Sierra Madre trashcans.

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    2. 10,000? C'mon, who believes that.

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    3. 9 readers is too high an estimate. Four of them only look at the pictures.

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    4. We don't throw them into trash cans. We recycle!

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  33. Why did the P C have two closed sessions? So c & l could try to bully them

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    1. C&L is fighting a voter approved law. They'll do anything to earn twice the money of any other law firm that might work here.

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  34. while Kurt was speaking, did Walsh have her fingers in her ears saying "nah nah nah nah...i can't hear you...."

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  35. I''m not poster 2:56, but the guy has a point. There is no excuse whatsoever for the Planning Commission voting in Janaury that Measure V applies to the ALF and then voting in May that it does not.

    Even KZ called the Commission out on the inconsistent votes. Also, Bob Spears has always opposed Measure V. His name is all over the No on Measure V Flyers. In fact, the ALF specific plan he approved is actually 3000 sq ft. bigger than what the developer requested!

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  36. I like the recomendation from Planning Com. Gina F. Something like; in the condictions include the square footage on the commercial and square footage on the residential-the residential portion is approx, one-fourth of the lot.

    Then why allow ninety-six people to dwell on one point eight acre? and what about the additional twelve feet in height just thrown in at the last minute?AND what happened to the commercial zonned lot having at least some commercial store fronts, in order to off set any twenty years down the road on the next General Plan possibility of the village of Sierra Madre growing????.

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  37. The agenda report states that the Planning Commission tacitly rejected putting Measure V on the ballot by approving the CUP. Unquestionably, the worst Planning Commission vote ever. So, why the love for the Commissioners posters 3:37 and 4:10?

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    1. So, get out your rope. Light some torches and run through the streets with your pitchforks and friends. What good will it do? The PC is not the enemy.

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  38. Poster 4:48, you can't badmouth the Commissioners unless you know them personally. Ask Poster 3:37 (aka Bob Spears' fanboy).

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  39. Spears has always been interested in torpedoeing Measure V. Anybody who says otherwise doesn't know the man or hasn't been to any Planning Commission meetings.

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  40. Do us a favor, 4:48, pull down the staff report from last Tuesday's Council meeting before you spout off. Those of us who have followed this project know that the Planning Commission made Billy Shields add retail quite a few meetings ago. Duh.

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  41. The PC voted to gut Measure V, but it's "not the enemy." Yeah, sure.

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    1. On whose behalf are you scapegoating the Planning Commission?

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  42. The Planning Commission was lied to by a law firm that specializes in just this kind of work. Paid for by you the poor dumb taxpayer. It is your money that pays these people. You want someone to blame? Try yourself. You are paying the bills for people who are working against your interests.

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  43. Duh! Listen to Tue nite City Council Meeting, and what was discussed! and LIKE is spelled correctly poster 4:56....

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  44. Poster 5:03. That's the most idiotic thing I've ever read on this blog. I pay taxes, therefore, I am responsible for C&L giving the Planning Commissioner's bad advice and the Planning Commission taking the bad advice.

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    1. Hard to take, eh? Your money going to C&L so they can steal your rights. Mmm-hmm.

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    2. Well said 5:20, and yes, it is hard to take. I find it very frustrating that the times I've chipped in to sue the city, I have also through my taxes chipped in to fight the suit. But that's the way it is, and I'm willing to do it again.

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  45. KZ thought there was something unsavory about the PC's voting record and he had the courage to say so.

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    1. I disagree with the 'unsavory.'
      Inconsistent, yes, as we have been so well informed by the visitation of an astral projection.
      Even with a lisp, inconsistent would not come out as unsavory.

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  46. You're not the scapegoat if you did something wrong.

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    1. Then you must be a scapegoat.

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  47. The Planning Commission knew better. They were told by Zimmerman, MacGillivray, Watts and Sutton, the attorney who drafted Measure V that the initiative applied to the ALF project. They chose to ignore those luminaries.

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    1. What difference does it make? This is all about the City Council. The Planning Commission was forced into the position of making decisions they were not equipped to make. Don't blame the victim.

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  48. LET IT BE HEARD THAT THE CITY COUNCIL OF SIERRA MADRE IS LIVING IN A UNCONTROLLED VACUUM...

    THOSE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS & STAFF CHOSE NOT TO HEAR THE RESIDENTS CONCERNS...

    IT DOES NOT MATTER IF THE ISSUES ARE PORTABLE TO(Y)LETS - WATER ISSUES - DWELLING UNITS... we will see new definitions to suit them....(SH_T is SH_T, and CRAP remains CRAP...& dwelling units remain dwelling units....

    DAME THE TORPEDOES, STRAIGHT AHEAD, JOSH WILL AGAIN ASK FOR ANOTHER MILLION DOLLARS & THE RESIDENTS WILL CONTINUE TO PAY FoR THEIR STUPID MISTAKES...

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    Replies
    1. How does one dame a torpedo?
      A touch of make-up, a splash of perfume?

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  49. Be kind please rewind.

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  50. Gene Goss has Carol Canterbury on his Fishbowl radio show tonight. They're discussing her pedicab. It is scintillating stuff.

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    1. Gene Goss, member of the Faculty at Long Beach City College, member of the Sierra Madre Library Board of Trustees, and Fishbowl talk show host. Oh, and father of a Little Leaguer and husband as well as candidate for Sierra Madre City Council 2014. He's being groomed...

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    2. How are they going to make him interesting?

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    3. You know, that is a very hard question.

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    4. Did you know, Goose has used our Library?

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    5. He is using it now.

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    6. Gene Goss now has Josh Moran on his show. They're talking about the dunk tank at the 4th of July Parade. Did you know that all the proceeds go to the Chamber of Commerce?

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    7. Josh is referring to the Green Committee as the Green Commission. He is also trashing Koerber and MacGillivray. Politics all the time for Josh, I guess.

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    8. Nothing about the high density development demand at the heart of the Green Accords? Gosh Josh!

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    9. I think Josh has assumed nobody was listening. He is almost right.

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    10. Is it Village Intersections, or Village Idiots?

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    11. Green me, Josh!

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    12. OOooohh. Josh just lied. He said Measure V was only designed for condos. Pee-nooo-key-ooh!

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    13. Joshie also said that we would all get "some kind of ballot question." Is Josh saying he is going to break the law?

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    14. To bad it's radio and not video. I want to see his Liar pants on fire

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    15. That actually makes me feel sorry for Moran.
      I don't think he has the intellectual goods to grasp Zimmerman's reasoning - or the facts.

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    16. Josh has the emotional maturity of an 8 year old.

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  51. Looking over the thread of comments, it seems like someone with a mighty big ax to grind with the PC led the comments in circles. Not unlike the movement the council goes in with Moran at the helm.

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  52. you guys have to let go this vote thing. You all appear to support the project. Why do you want to vote? Thats why we have a planning commission and council in place to determine if it meets city requirements.

    Voting on the ALF is stupid. People here in Sierra Madre think they live in a HOA. Same people are the ones that stalled one carter and now look at it. Its the citizens fault that project didnt get started in time. Guess you just cant fix stupid.

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    1. Only slaves give up their freedom to vote. Your stupid has obviously been unfixed since the day you were born.

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    2. Wow, 11:36, new to town?
      One Carter has been a failure because the plan, executed against the will of the majority of the residents, was a terrible plan. The lots are too small, too expensive, weirdly shaped and a failure in design.

      Measure V was put in place as the law, not a whim, not an alternative, but the law, because of terrible errors, like the Carter plan approval, made by councils, and most of all because of the Downtown Specific Plan, which would have ruined Sierra Madre and turned it into an Orange County cookie cutter mess.

      "People here in Sierra Madre think they live in a HOA. Sounds like you are very unhappy with the town, and really ought to relocate. We're probably just too small, and too involved as citizens exercising their rights for your taste.

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  53. 11:36 - sloppy thinking, inaccurate facts, personal insults - sounds a lot like the current mayor.

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    1. Yes. And quite possibly just as drunk.

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  54. SGVCOG OFFICIAL ARRESTED,,,,,,, Nick Conway, the executive director of the San Gabriel Valley Council of Governments was arrested Friday. Oh nothing much happened at the COG meeting,,,,,,, who said that,,,, well maybe Nancy will have something to report now. She is so brilliant.

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