Sunday, July 22, 2012

Your Sunday Tattler News & Review

(Mod: So much has been happening lately that we fear we've lost track of some of the more important events swirling about us. I can tell you that I took the family to see the new Batman movie last night, and we did return from that experience alive. It is a great film, by the way, one that details an individual man's struggle to do right by his community despite the strong reservations - and at times uncivil behavior - of his critics. That he does all this while wearing a cape, which also looks a lot like bat wings, only adds to the viewer's sense of wonder. But we should delay no longer. Here's your Sunday Tattler News & Review for July 22, 2012.)

21 burned in walk over hot coals at Robbins event (click here): Fire officials said 21 people at an event hosted by motivational speaker Tony Robinson suffered burns while walking across hot coals and three of the injured were treated at hospitals.

The injuries took place during the first Thursday of a four-day event at the San Jose Convention Center, hosted by Robbins called "Unleash the Power Within." Most of those hurt had second and third degree burns, said San Jose Fire Department Capt. Reggie Williams.

Witness Jonathan Correll was not attending the event, but when he saw a large crowd gathered on a closed-off surface street near the convention center, he got off the light rail he was riding to see what was going on.

"I just heard these screams of agony," he told the Associated Press. "People were in pain. It sounded like people were being tortured."

Robbins, 52, who bills himself as an entrepreneur and "peak performance strategist," has written five books that are published in 14 languages, and has sold more than 40 million audiotapes of a professional development system dubbed "Personal Power," according to his website.

His informercials have continuously aired on average every 30 minutes, 24 hours a day somewhere in North America since their initial introduction in April 1989, the website says.

(Mod: Far be it from me to criticize the weekend lifestyle or leisure choices made by some, but I really think that these unfortunate hot-footed individuals would be happier now if they had attended the Batman movie instead.)

The Eyes Have It: Marketers Now Track Shoppers' Retinas (click here): Consumer products companies are turning to new technology to overcome the biggest obstacle to learning what shoppers really think: what the shoppers say.

It turns out consumers aren't a very reliable source of information about their own preferences. Academic research has shown focus-group subjects try to please their testers and overestimate their interest in products, making it hard to get a read on what works. But getting testing right is crucial for consumer-products companies because they ship high volumes and lack direct contact with shoppers.

To find out what really draws their test shoppers' attention, companies like Procter & Gamble Co., Unilever PLC and Kimberly Clark are combining three-dimensional computer simulations of product designs and store layouts with eye-tracking technology. And that, in turn, is helping them roll out new products faster and come up with designs and shelf layouts that boost sales.

(Mod: Here is my question. Does anyone know if Buxton's Market Demand Study includes any research using retina tracking? It would seem to me to be essential that we not only know what products need to be sold downtown, but also which products evoke an emotional response. My guess is lava lamps and hula dancing sculpture that also employs bobblehead technology would be favorites here. But without the pertinent data, how can we be certain?)

UFO news: Boy claims headband allows him to speak with inter-dimensional beings (click here): UFO investigator Blake Cousins recently interviewed a 12-year-old boy named Johnny Zoltkowski about a headband communication device he built. The boy built the headband from a piece of copper, a silver coin and a clear quartz crystal; he claims the device allows him to speak with inter-dimensional beings.

Zoltkowski wears this contraption on his head like a tiara, and he says that he uses it to communicate with beings who live in Hollow Earth.

Although the boy made the headband himself, he does not take credit for its invention. That honor goes to Billie Woodward, a man who claims he was actually born in Hollow Earth. These copper headbands are available for purchase online. They range in price from $180 to $215; the price does not include the silver coins or clear quartz crystals. Those cost extra.

(Mod: Word has it that when Mrs. Zoltkowski asks Johnny to clean his room, a consultation with the inter-dimensional beings from Hollow Earth ensues. Oftentimes the answer is that it's not propitious for Johnny to do so at this time.)

California legislative employees making six figures get raises (click here): At least 93 California legislative employees making more than $100,000 received raises this year, a review of newly released payroll records showed. While six-figure wage earners represent just a fraction of total legislative staff, the Capitol now has more than 300 employees making more than $100,000.

Forty-seven Senate employees with six-figure salaries received raises between Jan. 31 and June 30 of this year. Six additional employees in that pay range received raises but were promoted or assigned to a new job. Records released to The Bee under the Legislative Open Records Act show that at least 189 employees in the upper house now make six figures or more, a net increase of 15 since Jan. 31.

(Mod: A little something to consider when you are trying to decide on how exactly to vote on the state-wide tax increase measure on this November's ballot.)

When are there too many laws? (click here): One of the best (and few decent) U.S. presidents said this: "It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their win choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood." - James Madison

The Competitive Enterprise Institute said this in its 10,000 Commandments Report on the Federal Register:
- The 2011 Federal Register has 81,247 pages.
- Regulatory compliance costs dwarf corporate income taxes, and exceed individual income taxes and even pre-tax corporate profits.
- Agencies issued 3,807 final rules in 2011, a 6.5 percent more than in 2010.
- Of the 4,128 regulations in the works at year-end 2011, 212 were "economically significant," meaning they generally wield at least $100 million in economic impact.

This, of course, doesn't take into consideration the 73,608 pages in the U.S. tax code, which has an even more direct effect on you. By the way, in 1939 there were only 504 pages.

Facebook, Wal-Mart strengthen ties as Mark Zuckerberg and his inner circle visit Arkansas (click here): Facebook CEO Mark Zuckerberg is about to add the biggest retail players to his list of friends.

Zuckerberg and his senior management team will spend two days at Wal-Mart Stores Bentonville, Ark., home office this week, meeting with executives of the world's largest retailer and discussing ways to "deepen" their relationship.

The Facebook team will meet with Wal-Mart CEO Mike Duke and his lieutenants on Friday, in the first such meeting between the two corporations' senior management teams. Zuckerberg and Facebook Chief Operating Officer Sheryl Sandberg will then speak to hundreds of Wal-Mart employees on Saturday at the retailer's monthly meeting.

(Mod: I don't know about you, but I sense a certain logic to the developing corporate synergy between these two great American companies.)

Enjoy your day off.

http://sierramadretattler.blogspot.com

78 comments:

  1. Its interesting. the Jarvis guy called a pay freeze 'budget dust', but then complained about the raises. Anyway, the raises arent on brown, not that that should be a reason to vote for prop 30 anyway. prop 38 bypasses the sacramento shell game altogether..

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    1. Kind of like the "train to nowhere," these salary increases show that Sacramento has no real understanding of why it is important for them to make sacrifices. That people making over $100,000 should be given raises while at the same time California taxpayers, who pay some of the highest taxes anywhere, are being asked to fork over more, is crazy. There are some good arguments for raising taxes, education being one of them. But all of that is pretty much doomed because of just how tone deaf those working in our state capitol have become.

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    2. "the Capitol now has more than 300 employees making more than $100,000."
      How dare they not bring those salaries down given what is going on in the state?
      That does it for me.

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  2. Now that you have read through all that I have a request: please sign the petition started in England to restore the USA to Yarmouth, Nova Scotia ferry service which was discontinued in 2009. The port town of Yarmouth has nearly dried up and hundreds of jobs lost and economies flatening due to the loss of commerce from this 100 year plus ferry service:

    http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/restore-the-nova-scotia-to-usa-ferry-service

    After you do this you can spend some lovely internet time looking around the province of Nova Scotia and plan a vacation there, eat some of the best fish/lobster/scallops of your lifetime.

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  3. From the Sacramento Bee:

    "The director of California's state parks resigned and a deputy was fired Friday after officials learned the department sat on nearly $54 million in surplus money for years while parks were threatened with closure over budget cuts.

    Ruth Coleman, director of the state Department of Parks and Recreation, stepped down, and chief deputy Michael Harris was let go amid questions about the underreported funds that date back 12 years, announced state Natural Resources Agency Secretary John Laird, whose agency oversees the parks department."

    This is a mess because some vandalism has taken place due to closures (Mitchell's Caverns on the Mojave Desert) and many volunteer groups and communities have stepped up at great expense and effort to keep local parks open against the threat of closure.

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  4. No raises to anyone while salaries are being cut to teachers who have to take unpaid days (furloughs)!!!!

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    1. One rule for them, another rule for us.

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  5. Thank you 8:42!!!
    When teachers are cut our children suffer.
    Schools not jails. Our children....remember we were all children once....
    deserve the best.

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  6. AP cleaned up it's writing on the Robbins story. The original report was hysterical, because it said this:

    "Walking across hot coals heated to between 1,200 to 2,000 degrees provides attendees an opportunity to "understand that there is absolutely nothing you can overcome," according to the motivational speaker's website."

    Yep, left out a very important 't.

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    1. Looks like that version had some inadvertent truth to it!

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    2. Tony Robbins has been making money hand over fist for over 2 decades as a self help guru - and this is the first public scandal that he's had to deal with. This failure will easily be written off as the participants fault - anyone who got burned obviously had too little faith.
      Really they were just too slow on picking up their feet.

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    3. I'm a little baffled on the inspirational need to walk on 2,000 degree burning coals. What exactly is the lesson here? That they are hot?

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    4. The lesson is that you can transcend physical laws and limitations through your will.
      And through picking up your feet so fast that only minor blistering occurs.
      Science and philosophy, though the part Robbins is making money on is the philosophy.

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    5. Is it OK if you say, "Oootch! Oootch! Oootch!" while you do it?

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    6. So "there is absolutely nothing you can't overcome?" Maybe Ali G was really on to something when he asked Buzz Aldrin if humans will ever walk on the sun!

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    7. Robbins has successfully demonstrated the difference between theory and application...

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    8. I think for most people lured in by Robbins's infomercial spiel it is a matter of getting promoted to run the sales office at the insurance company.

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    9. Certainly not "theory" in empirical, scientific sense 10:40. More like a very profitable way to make the gullible feel that their "feelings" are more valid than rationalism.

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    10. You mean like there is a supernatural way out of your mundane fate?

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    11. I wonder if the Mr. R, his executive team, and the motivational speakers would be willing to walk across the coals -- after the coals have been independently verified to be 1,200 to 2,000 degrees at the surface.

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    12. 11:04, they know the tricks (speed). How else do you think they have had such a booming business for so many years? I think Robbins is on the truly crazy side. And crazies definitely can have some unusual abilities.
      Walking on water now, that would be something else. Don't think they can do that.

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    13. At 1,200 to 2,00 degrees on the surface, I doubt speed would help much. They rely a great deal on the fact that the surface is much cooler than claimed and is insulated by ash. Basically, it's a trick.

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  7. To attract and retain the best teachers for our children, teachers should be paid more. But they should also be required to work full time rather than 6 hours a day for 180 days. At $70k a year, that's about $65 an hour plus benefits to teach the same materials year after year. Not bad.

    Actually, I don't begrudge them the deal they have. But teachers: don't whine about being underpaid and then ask parents to volunteer to grade papers and exams -- unless, of course, you're willing to drop by our offices every once in a while and help us with our filing. No need to call in advance. Many of us are there 250+ days a year.

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    1. The trouble is, 10:12 am, that it is not only the best teachers that are attracted... and should be paid more. The less well qualified apply as well, some who were at one time or another well qualified and are no longer well qualified, and a whole category of new and recently certified teachers who are taught in the school of non-scientific gobbeldy gook graduating from non-accredited colleges and universities. Most of us hear the word "teacher" and recall the best and brightest that we revered and respected from chapters in our own educational lives. Times they are achanging.

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    2. Teachers, good and bad, have a far better deal than most people in the business world. There is no comparison.

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    3. Ave teacher salary in pusd is about $65k.

      http://www.ed-data.k12.ca.us/App_Resx/EdDataClassic/fsTwoPanel.aspx?#!bottom=/_layouts/EdDataClassic/fiscal/TeacherSalary.asp?reportNumber=4096&level=06&fyr=1011&county=19&district=64881#teachersalaryschedule-annualsalary

      However, that is only because there are 2 schools with averages above $70k. The rest all average below about $66k, with 6 below $60k, and 2 below $55k (maybe even below $50k depending on year). Not begrudging your point, just clarifying numbers.

      Regardless, from the contract:

      "6.1 The District and the Association recognize that the varying nature of a unit member's day-to-day professional responsibilities does not easily lend itself to a duty day of rigidly established length. Unit members shall spend as much time as necessary to fulfill their instructional and professional responsibilities. Although the minimum site-based assignment hours may be less than forty (40) hours per week, it is understood that fulfillment of a unit member's total professional responsibilities will generally require a work week well in excess of forty (40) hours."

      http://utofp.org/contract-online/#VI

      Its probably impossible to work less than 40 hours a week as a teacher nowadays given the severe reduction in support staff thats taken place over the past years. It is not uncommon in some schools to see teachers still on campus after dark (even in non-winter months) and on weekends.. fwiw..

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  8. The public sector is now facing the same kind of pressures the private sector has had to deal with for years. Unfortunately it is going to take a financial collapse to get the state's house in order. Politicians being too gutless to deal with these issues like business would.

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  9. I saw Carol the Clown in town this morning spreading the news about our "vile" man JC. Her ruffled feathers on her head were quite a mess.

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    1. Was she drinking?

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    2. It is difficult to imagine a life quite that small. Her entire world is that couple of blocks downtown.

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    3. Sometimes it is best to judge someone by their enemies...

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    4. I don't know the woman, but looking at yesterday's comments, it is clear she has inspired an great deal of bad feeling.

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    5. She has a malicious mouth. She finally got called out.

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    6. She not only as a malicious mouth but it is connected to a non-functioning brain.

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    7. Looking at her extreme red complexion I would gather to say that she has a drinking problem.

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    8. Carol picks a fight with the guy who runs by far the most widely read blog in town, calls him a creep and vile, denounces him on Patch, and then galoomphs around town howling about her victimhood because she got called out on it. She definitely was short-changed at the big marble exchange in the sky.

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    9. Unfortunately for Carol the Town Clown, her plan to Now the Town Clown with her ruffled white feathers and bright red nose finds herself with her pants down. How embarrassing. If I were her I probably would lay low for a few months and let this cool down.

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    10. 11:47 I know the woman and once I put a pro Measure V sign in my hard - I got constant glares and ignored me when I kept saying hello to her.

      Quite a marketing genius she has become.

      Insult potential customers and alienate half of your potential customer base.

      Vile has a new friend and her name is Carol.

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  10. My child's teachers stayed late and corrected papers. Often went in on Saturdays to tutor, monitored clubs for no pay for children to play chess, debate and have after school art.

    I know of another teacher who has an after school music class. Even with the cuts the teachers still stay for the kids. The times they are a changin'.

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    1. Do they want the job? Why is there always such a wail of complaints from teachers? They ought to reconsider their career choices if they have so much to complain about.

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    2. Which wails of complaints exactly?

      Earlier this year the gates foundation released a teacher survey that included their opinions on what is the most important thing impacting their retention. Higher pay did not even make the top 10. When teachers wail about anything, we generally should listen because, imho, they are most interested in making sure kids get an education.

      Just for the record, here are the things teachers felt were more important than pay in allowing them to do their jobs and remain as teachers:
      - supportive leadership
      - more family involvement in student's education
      - more help for students who have behavioral or other problems interfering with learning
      - access to high-quality curriculum and teaching resources
      - time for teachers to collaborate
      - clean and safe building conditions
      - collegial work environment
      - professional development that is relevant to personal and school goals
      - teachers are evaluated by multiple measures
      - greater decision-making role for teachers in regards to school policies and practices

      All more important than pay. Those horrible teachers...

      http://www.scholastic.com/primarysources/download.asp
      (see page 59 of the full report)

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    3. 12:13, great list of all the complaints.

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  11. Will it upset the Ad business if I wear shades while shopping?

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  12. 10:12 The same materials year after year?
    Not true.
    Curriculum changes with the time.
    Adapting to everything every year.
    Mostly with the technology.

    Textbooks practically outdated.
    Mostly smartboards used in every classroom.
    Try that one for a change.
    Whew!

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    Replies
    1. You mean teachers are asked to utilize contemporary methods of instruction? What a burden!

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  13. 11:05 Yes, some are willing to do what you describe. But viewed in terms of the true 8 hour day, say 8:30am to 5:30pm (1 hr lunch), that most people work means that they are getting paid for "after school" time and therefore are not "staying late." And this for only 180 days a year, less sick and personal time.

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  14. Learning: Everyone who works must adapt to changing technology. Heck, I've even got to figure out my new cell phone and DVR! Whew!

    Except perhaps for developments in the last year (primarily current events/science), most of the curriculum is relatively static. Addition, subtraction, algebra, trig, calculus, history, geography, science, English etc. are essentially the same. Sure every once in a while a Fermat's Last Theorem may be solved, but it's very unlikely such an event will result in more than an anecdotal mention in math class. A competent teacher should be able to develop a sensible curriculum that need only be tweaked every now and again.

    The changes in materials taught are nothing like the ongoing changes and challenges facing those in business and government.

    Even if you disagree and can point to specifics I haven't addressed, remember this: It's part of a teacher's job.

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  15. Zuckerberg and WalMart are going to deepen their relationship?
    Good God.
    It's time for Paddy Cheyesky's Network again. Video and text on American Rhetoric:
    http://www.americanrhetoric.com/MovieSpeeches/moviespeechnetwork4.html

    "You are an old man who thinks in terms of nations and peoples. There are no nations. There are no peoples. There are no Russians. There are no Arabs. There are no third worlds. There is no West. There is only one holistic system of systems, one vast and immane, interwoven, interacting, multivariate, multinational dominion of dollars. Petro-dollars, electro-dollars, multi-dollars, reichmarks, rins, rubles, pounds, and shekels.

    It is the international system of currency which determines the totality of life on this planet. That is the natural order of things today. That is the atomic and subatomic and galactic structure of things today! And YOU have meddled with the primal forces of nature, and YOU WILL ATONE!"

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  16. Walmarts business model is partially responsible for the condition of manufacturing in the US, Walmart is about as Patriotic as my left @ut.....have never shopped there...will never shop there.....Sam Walton is spinning in his grave!

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  17. Wal*Mart killed American manufacturing. Facebook killed American brains.

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    1. The Mountain Views News killed American journalism.

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    2. Even the fish are offended.

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  18. Can anybody find the agenda for the meeting Tuesday night? Or are we all even more dependent on the Tattler?

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    1. I'm using it now for tomorrow's post. It is the first batch of pages in the complete Agenda Packet. Which is at the bottom of the selections under City Council for July 24.

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  19. 1:32, it is under Documents, not Current City Documents.

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  20. Ya gotta love Action Item 4:
    4. DISCUSSION – ON-LINE ACCESS TO CITY DOCUMENTS

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    1. oops. Forget that. I was looking at the second meeting in July in 2011. Nasty shock to see John Buchanan listed as mayor.

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    2. I still can't find the agenda listed, nor the complete agenda packet. Only three items listed for the 24th. Computer dummy that I am, can you help me find it?

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    3. I accessed it in the usual way but in specifying dates I entered beginning July 19, ending July 25. Up it popped. So I'm thinking someone new did the input and that's the reason for the confusion and the duplication of some items on the agenda. Usually I would enter beginning July 19, ending July 21 because that's when it should have appeared.

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    4. Found it, thanks. It is a new hire that is doing the website. Hope it gets back to normal -- whatever that is -- soon.

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    5. Specifying dates is a new requirement. Previously I could access the docs by just clicking on city council.
      Ok, one more step to include on that expensive user unfriendly page.

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  21. I hour lunch is not available to teachers. Students are allowed only 35 min. at most schools, even high schools. Not allowed too much time on their hands. My lunch hour was mostly devoted to make up tests. Students didn't have time to do this after school as they either had to head off to work or after school athletic practice or games.

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  22. Thousand Oaks spent about a hundred grand on a marketing consultant to help it's dying mixed use center and the end result was the suggestion to "angle the parking spaces" to fit more cars

    Are Councils where the idiots end up because they can't think on their own?

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  23. Carol is whining because she's being misunderstood and still gossiping?

    Is there an illegal still in her backyard?

    We've certainly got some looney characters in this town and they all clammer for attention.

    Carol will see hereself losing more and more business until nobody will even let her rent out storage units at Sierra Madre Storage.

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    Replies
    1. I think it's a case of the legal hooch in the house. One too many trips to the wine tasting room perhaps?

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  24. Quite the coward Carol the Realtor.

    She pulled the "vile" comment off her Facebook page and runs around town claiming she's been wrong.

    Sounds familar. ala Susan Henderson - print lies and hate speech with complete malice and them claim the victim card.

    At least Carol could have stuck to her comments and left the post.

    She meant what she said and now she has to live with it.

    I just hope it destroys her real estate sales business and it certainly reflects poorly on her employer to have an employee using hate speech on a personal blog which she also uses for business.

    Good thing she is a straight commission sales person because in the real world that'd get you fired and she'd deserve it.

    Only we as the public can fire her now.

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    1. To Carol's credit she's not played the race card nor the gay card and I'm thinking she isn't claiming to be greenie (in spite of the shirt in the photo) by virtue of her pink pedicab. Unfortunately Regan did away with institutionalism for her kind so I think we're stuck.

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    2. It's hard for us to picture the elegant and professional Reni Rose working alongside someone with so little grace.

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  25. In all this hoopla about how hard teachers work, I decided to review the numbers I posted a week or so ago. It turns out I neglected to report the State Teachers Retirement System "Defined Benefit Supplement Program." Out of the same whopping 8% of salary I contributed each year, in my final years of teaching, only 6% went into the regular retirement which is actually about $7,500.00 per month, while the option I've chosen for the "Supplement" adds another $600.00 per month for life, bringing the total to over $8000.00 per month.

    Since I no longer pay the 8% into STRS, I am actually paid more not to work.

    This whole issue is awkward. Of course teachers are an essential workforce in our society. God bless you if you stay "after school" to work with students. Just come off that sense of entitlement. There are taxpayers out there whose hours and working conditions you just don't seem to understand.

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    1. You know, I wouldn't mind if teachers received generous pay and retirement packages if they actually taught the students something worthwhile - you know - like the traditional reading, 'riting and 'rithmetic along with traditional American History and civics. the kind that teaches love of country and self responsibility and accountability, not all this self-esteem stuff and "celebrating diversity" and "green is a religion" kind of thing. Students today are not taught reasoning and thinking, they are taught feelings. If this is what we are getting for our tax dollars, I say one is better off home schooling.

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    2. I'm with you, 4:39. When the state mandated that teachers had to teach homosexuality to 5 year old students at school (SB48), I was grateful that my children were in private school.

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    3. Bob Matheson was also a big proponent of home schooling...

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    4. The term Bob used was "mentoring."

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  26. Did anyone read the editorial opinion in today's Pasadena Star News.
    It was about how incompetent the Calpers finance people were...projecting that their pension funds would be getting over 7% interest....it got just over 1%.
    Reminds me of when our finance director Karen, got up and claimed that they could fund our city employees with a "projected" 8% interest rate!
    Buchanan and the bobbleheads all thought so, until MaryAnn MacGillivray almost did a filabuster pleading how insane this was. MaryAnn asked the audience and the council if "anyone is getting 8% interest" on an investment"? She would like to know about it!
    The audience chimed in that night and the council members had to get real.
    Sort of. If that is possible.
    Anyway, MaryAnn is a fiscal conservative who believes in zero base line accounting.....no "predicting" in a bad economy what interest rate you're liable to get. At that time it was almost impossible to get over 3% on even triple A rated funds.

    Anyway, the Star News thinks all these idiots who were doing the finance planning for Calpers should be fired. I sure agree.

    Karen? If you haven't read this, read it, you need to take accounting 101.
    You were very much mistaken. When a scientist from a hospital medical lab has to explain why your idea is not a good one.........even if it was the brilliant minded former 3 time Mayor of Sierra Madre, Mrs. MaryAnn MacGillivray!

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  27. Teachers do not TEACH HOMOSEXUALITY, this is a very huge gross mis-understanding.

    The bill assures that the contributions of GLBT's will be included just like the contributions of the Irish, Germans, African's are included. It is an irony that the bill had to be written because in teaching at all schools there are already contributions by GLBT's taught: Herman Melville, Thomas Mann, Collette, Henry James, cocteau, May Sarton, DaVinci....etc

    Perhaps it has become a huge issue because of one of many cases in 2008 of Brandon McInearny who was bullied and beaten while adults in school looked the other way.

    Educators are not just taught how to respond to emotional problems but how to help children with critical thinking and long term/short term reasonable actions.
    Then they teach reading, writing, math, call parents, and do a ton of other activities which a not a part of the job description because they care deeply about children. I see it every day.

    Volunteer at a public school with me. It opened my world!!

    PS: your home school child will still find out about the real world sooner or later. They have the internet. They will Pretend they do not know what is going on because they know you do not want them to know.

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    1. What happens when children ask the teacher what LGBT stands for?

      Also, what is the proof that Da Vinci was gay?

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    2. The outing of dead historical figures is a bit odd, isn't it? Very similar to the Mormon practice of baptizing the dead without their permission.

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  28. 9:42 ~ Excellent! However, that bar is raised too high for some of the folks around here.

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