Friday, May 16, 2014

The Stonehouse Garages Galore Plan (GGP) Kinda Bombs

Chair Pendlebury & his courage cushion
The Planning Commission was treated to quite a novel notion last evening, put forward by the legal mouthpiece for the current  Stonehouse McMansion development LLC, R. "Stevie" Austin. The idea being his people should be allowed to build four car garages without them being figured into the overall allowable square footage of whatever McMansions they'd be attached to. Something that would then enable them to pack those freed up square feet into their already outsized wickiups.

Of course, this was just a test meeting. An opportunity to air out such shimmering ideas without the developer having to worry about it being on that rather pricey City of Sierra Madre fee clock. A freebie as it were, just to see how this goes over with the locals. Which, of course, it didn't. And while no "on the record" decisions were made by the Planning Commissioners, most members did voice some misgivings and skepticism about allowing off the grid garages.

Look at it this way, if one Hillside Management Zone developer is allowed to go with the Garages Galore Plan, what is to stop the other HMZ developers from doing the same? It could open up some very unfortunate floodgates.

I suspect the enchantress Adele Chang would certainly want to add some off the grid garages to her creations as well. My guess is she would probably proclaim the idea to be absolutely brilliant.

Besides, the garages not counting for McMansion square footage thing, isn't that akin to certain folks enclosing their porches and claiming them as rooms? I certainly hope we all understand how that is not sound planning policy.

And even though garage square footage wouldn't be counted as part of a McMansion upon its conception, do you really think that when the time comes to sell that big slug of a house the owner won't sneak that extra square footage into his real estate prospectus? Despite what the developer's attorney might have said a decade or two previously?

Ah well. Another development LLC to mess around with. Unfortunately for our purposes here, much of what we heard last night probably won't come back before the Planning Commission. It just did not impress the target audience, that being those solemn souls up on the dais.

However, I am certain R. Stevie will be back with some new and exiting concepts that we will all be able to have some fun with as well. Especially when he tries to explain how 6,500 square foot McMansions are a way of showing your love for nature. He gets paid a lot of money for his fine ideas, so everyone should be prepared for some LULUs. Or "Locally Unwanted Land Usages." Just in case you are non-acronymic.

A Bad Night for Nancy Walsh

As was pointed out by one astute commenter last night, the Planning Commission just couldn't make the necessary findings for Nancy Walsh's Hart Park House storage room. As such they unceremoniously dumped the last remaining accomplishment of her single term in office. Alas.

Great Speeches!

A lot of folks stepped up to the public comment microphone last night and spoke out about how overdevelopment is threatening our community. I thought I would post two of those talks here. They need to be read and appreciated for what they are, impassioned statements in support of a way of life under siege by big money developers, people that want to cash out on our birthright, and run.

Clem Bartolai
Good evening Mr. Chairman and members of the Planning Commission. As a 52 year resident of Sierra Madre and a three term member of the City Council, I have seen all of the development that has taken place. Some good and some not so good.

What I have seen recently is that there is development proposed that has the potential to ruin our small village. Remember that whatever is allowed always sets a precedent to influence development in the future. I realize that change is inevitable, but we have the opportunity to make worthwhile changes.

Every candidate for a position on the City Council, and as far back as I can remember, at one time or another said that they want to preserve the unique identity of Sierra Madre. I think that for the most part all of us as residents feel the same way.

Each of you as Commissioners have the opportunity to make Sierra Madre a better place. I ask that each of you be diligent in avoiding mistakes in approving development that will in effect ruin this community forever.

Matt Bryant
I’m here for two reasons.  First, for an altruistic reason.  I want to support my neighbors who are the most immediately affected by the Stonehouse project. I will let them talk about the details of how this project is going to have an adverse impact on their enjoyment of their homes as well as perhaps the value of their property.

The second reason I’m here is for a more selfish reason.  I know that these kinds of projects don’t just affect my neighbors.  They affect me and everyone else in the community. Whether its One Carter, or this project at Stonehouse or the massive housing project that will soon be coming to Mater Dolorosa, they all have a consequence for the community and that consequence is a cumulative one. 
  
One project in and of itself may not break the camel’s back but as they start to add up whether it’s the big projects or a lot split or tearing down  older homes to build much larger homes,  eventually  every resident will be affected.  

I’m talking about increased traffic, congestion, pollution, then we start needing traffic lights and then when you go to Beantown to get a cup of coffee, you are having to put coins in a parking meter. And before you know it, you wake up and Sierra Madre is now indistinguishable from other over-developed cities.   

Speaking for myself, I chose to live in this town because it is different from these other cities.

You also have the water shortage.  Governor Brown declared a state of emergency.  Sierra Madre’s own wells are dry and we are relying on what was supposed to be a temporary connection to the MWD. I have to ask why in the world are we going on a building spree when we know we have an acute water shortage.  Yet here we are moving full-speed ahead with massive projects like The Kensington, One Carter, Stonehouse and soon over at Mater Dolorosa.
   
I would also be curious to know if there is any department at City Hall that says to the Director of Development Services that maybe in light of all this, we ought to slow down or maybe stop development all together until we solve this crisis.  I’m not sure that the residents of Sierra Madre want to ration their water and pay higher water rates so that Sierra Madre can turn into Arcadia.

As nearby communities like Arcadia, South Pas, Pasadena and San Marino reach the limit of their build-out capacity, Sierra Madre will now be in the cross-hairs of the developers.  That’s the reality of what we are facing.   

I would like to ask the members of this planning commission to listen to the concerns of the neighbors here and even though it may not be in your backyard, understand that if this trend continues, soon it may be a house next door to you that’s going to be torn down and replaced by some massive house that’s not in keeping with the neighborhood or a housing project near you that’s going to turn your quiet street into a highway.

The only way to control and stop this is to have stringent building standards and even consider a building moratorium so that we can catch our breath and the community can have a dialogue about what they want their town to look like because, after all, it is our town and you folks are supposed to represent us and the folks over at city hall are supposed to work for us.

You can't say it much better than that.

http://sierramadretattler.blogspot.com

130 comments:

  1. Thanks to everyone who showed up last night, and especially those who spoke. If you weren't there, and didn't watch on TV, please watch on your PC/tablet/phone. Yes, the developer was testing the water (so to speak) by having a sham "community forum." Not including garage square footage was the main issue, but the even bigger issues, also brought up, were McMansions of over 6000 sq ft and the fact that we have no water for ourselves, let alone new development. Commissioner Kevin Paschall made a great point about the water that we do have - his fish died. He bought more fish and they died in our "safe" water. What's up with that Bruce Inman?

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    1. The City has requested that any fish having died because of the chloramine contamination of our water be sent to Mr. Inman c/o City Hall for immediate testing.

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    2. I don't think the people of Sierra Madre want to see their City transformed. The planning commission and city council should implement the will of the people. That's our message. The next question is then how we legally implement the will of the people.

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    3. Someone who I think identified himself as Mr. Gold, talked about the Cambria analogy where they have a building moratorium. We don't need to re-invent the wheel either.

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    4. Why the sudden spate of building when we have a water crises. And if this all continues, we'll soon see traffic lights and parking meters as one of the speakers pointed out.

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    5. I didn't like them switching the settlement agreement so that some neighbors are off the hook and some neighbors now get badly impacted.

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    6. The City Council needs to instruct Bruce Inman to do an assessment of our water situation. Let his job be on the line if he makes a mistake. The goal would be to disconnect ourselves from the yellow, fish killing, smelly water from the MWD. Let's have him complete his study or better yet, higher an independant consulting firm to do the analysis. Meanwhile, the prudent thing to do would be to declare a building moratorium until that study is complete.

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    7. It was Bruce Inman's leadership, and a world class drought, that got us into this. He is not qualified to do his job, and he's hustled one city council after another.

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    8. Does Bruce Inman ever tell Danny Castro that development ought to slow down because of the water crises. Do they ever have a debate about these things at City Hall. They would if they cared about anything other than increasing revenues for higher salaries and benefits for themselves. All this problems are linked together.

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  2. Does anyone trust city hall 6:22?

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    Replies
    1. The fish did and look what happened to them.

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  3. Crawford, Clem and Matt.
    Thanks

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  4. Kevin. Please run for council again?

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  5. Sierra Madre voters need to start electing people who will represent the people who live here because it's a small town!!!!

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    1. and stop electing LAWYERS, commecial bankers, utility company employees, mortgage salesment, construction company owners, building industry lobbyists

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    2. Or history "professors" who don't understand numbers.

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    3. We need the City Council to know investigate a building moratorium until we get things figured out. It doesn't have to be permanent but just so that we can think about what we want the town to look lke. I think it has to come from the City Council at this point.

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    4. I wish that some members of the Planning Commission besides Kevin would hear the people and forget about their own opinions or that of their "clients" but listen to what the community wants.

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  6. I agree with 6:29 - Kevin, we need you! I love the fish comments. I wonder if I can send Inman the bill for my bottled water I give to my dog, because I'm afraid to give her the yellow, stinky tap water

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    1. What about the expensive filters just to get the agent orange out of the water, the massive amounts of bowl cleaners, and ruined clothes?

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    2. I drink the water and people tell me I'm glowing. Maybe I've become radioactive.

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    3. I hope Kevin's next stop will be the City Council. We need you brother!

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  7. There were some great comments from people. We have to band together on what's happening and not get picked off project by project.

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    1. Absolutely......we need to start a city wide Preservation group.
      SAVE SMALL SIERRA MADRE!

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    2. We should ask for the open space to be put into conservancy with public access allowed so that one: it can never be developed and two: they can't ever ask for gating of the neighborhood.

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    3. Join the coalition.

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    4. This is the coalition.

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    5. The message here is simple. What do we want our town to look like? We know what the developers want the city to look like. Let's have a building moratorium until we figure that out. There should be a referendum among the people of this town. My sense of the purpose of the planning commission is just to figure out with the developer how we can make it work.

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    6. I've never like people who refer to themselves with an initial as the first part of their name like R. Steven Austin. It sounds a bit pretentous.

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    7. I think it was MaryAnn who pointed out that you have to see each development in a larger context of how it fits with the general plan and what the people want. She also made a good point about affordable housing requirements.

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    8. 8:59 - the name goes with the hair.

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    9. Does anybody know what happened to the group "Sierra Madre Citizens for Community Preservation"? Maybe we ought to fold everything into that group. Who are the players?

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    10. You mean residents For the Preservation of Sierra Madre? RPSM?

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    11. Let's re-form that group or call it whatever we want. We can launch it with a kick-off rally at City Hall. What do you say?

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    12. I say let's go for it. We need something in place because this just isn't going to go away. If its not one project, it will be another.

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    13. I'm in. Tell me when and where.

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  8. Alot of people called for a building moratorium. I thought it was a bit revealing when the Chairman of the Planning Commission let it slip that his "clients" would not like a building moratorium. My question is: Who is he looking out for - his clients or the citizens of Sierra Madre? I'm not sure if he understands who he has an obligation to as a member of the Planning Commission.

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    1. Mr. Chairman is termed off the commission at the end of June. We need
      Bob Spears back. He does not take the developer's crapola. John Vanderbelt an ex commissioner has turned into public enemy #1 with his huge houses.

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    2. I think it will be good for Mr. Pendlebury to take some time off. He is going to give himself a stroke if he keeps getting all worked up like he does.

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    3. I think Mr. Pendlebury was a little angry and heavy-handed last night. He should understand that for alot of people, perhaps most people, these developers are trying to ruin Sierra Madre and turn it into Arcadia. Cut everybody some slack.

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    4. Can someone please talk to Bob Spears and convince him to be on the planning commission. We need him.

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    5. Yes, bring Bob Spears back. He was fantastic. We need his experience right now more than ever.

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    6. I love the way Crawford would engage with some of the speakers and pretty soon the developer is turning towards him and addressing him. That got Pendlebury pissed off. He was going to lose control of the meeting. He's a control freak.

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    7. Thanks to John Crawford and the Tattler for drawing attention to last night's meeting. That really helped. Now if we can get everybody else to do their part, we can pack the chambers.

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  9. A big thank you to Matt and Clem, and all of you who showed up and/or spoke last night. Since we were not able to be there, we appreciate your voices more than you know. We know that development at Stonehouse and elsewhere is inevitable, but we also agree with your voices and hope the City will do right by us and preserve our quaintness.

    On another note, in an attempt to slow down the traffic on Grandview, there has been some police action. Watching from my window by the computer, I have seen at least 15 citations given in the past two days. I say, kudos to the SMPD for slowing down those who use Grandview as a freeway alternative.

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    1. They have to make up for the UUT loss some way, right?

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    2. I don't care about the UUT, it has been downright life threatening to get out of our driveway at times. Glad to see the police doing what police should do I can't imagine what it will be like when Stonehouse gets developed. So, its about time the police remind people that Sierra Madre likes their sleepy town attitude, not the 210 freeway.

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    3. The problem over at City Hall is that we created this beast and now it works for itself and not for the people. Danny Castro is the Director of Development Services. He wants to pad his resume with big projects that he helped facilitate. Its in his best interest to have Sierra Madre turn into Arcadia. The residents want to preserve Sierra Madre the way it is. Let's get rid of the Director of Development Services and hire a Director for Community Preservation.

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    4. We need to get rid of Danny Castro. He's working against us.

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    5. Danny Castro will move onto another city for higher pay once he gets enough projects under his belt in Sierra Madre. That's how these city employees work. They don't want to preserve this town - they want to do the opposite.

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    6. I don't think Stonehouse is "inevitable" but we have to act now. Form a group and dog this thing at every turn.

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    7. Leave Danny alone. He's doing the job we are paying him to do which is to facilitate development in the city of Sierra Madre.

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    8. That's the problem. We have hired someone and are paying someone to ruin our town. How can we motivate him so that his biggest accomplishment is that no housing projects happened on his watch. Can you imagine him saying that in an interview. But that reveals the problem. HIs job is to do the opposite of what we want. It makes no sense.

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  10. Don't let your pets drink our dangerous polluted tap water. It is being used for developers to destroy our town.
    You can bet they don't drink it, but the stupid residents can. To hell with us!
    They want us a to die so they can over rebuild our property!
    We must fight back!

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  11. I think we need to bring MaryAnn MacGillivray out of retirement. No one has that kind of institutional knowledge and background.

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    1. I agree, MaryAnn is one of the best we ever had on council.
      So is Clem Bartolai.
      Clem, if you read this, I sure liked your comment. You really made things clear for me.
      I work at Santa Anita racetrack and your grandson William is a friend of mine.

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    2. Clem was great and spoke from the heart as a long-time resident. He has seen the changes that are taking place. It will only lead to one result: Sierra Madre transforms into Arcadia. And as he pointed out, it happens very incrementally.

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    3. MaryAnn was great last night. She can just rifle off these facts and figures. I wonder about the affordable housing. If that is required, that would certainly throw a wrench in some of these development projects.

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    4. Clem was so eloquent last night. I wish we could get him back on the Council. Clem, do it for Sierra Madre!

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  12. When I a child back in the 1950's.....
    I used to drink water out of a hose!!!
    I survived!!!!!
    Water wasn't poison back then.
    Now it is. Why? Simple answer.....
    OVER DEVELOPMENT!

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  13. I'd say the dream team on the City Council would be MaryAnn MacGillivray, Kevin Paschall, Denise Del Mar and Clem Bartolai and maybe Rachelle Arizmendi if she turns out ok.

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    1. Add Matt Bryant and the return of Chris Koerber. A great idea for a bumper sticker: "Import Kurt Zimmerman, Not Water."

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    2. Love it 7:56!

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    3. I have complete faith in Rachelle. She doesn't suffer fools gladly, which is bad news for certain staff members.

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    4. It seems like the building moratorium concept is not something for the planning commission. This may have to start at the City Council.

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    5. The city needs money. They're selling this town off piecemeal to developers so they can fund their pensions and health care plans.

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    6. Why should they have to do that? A $36,000 health is only about $3,000 a month. Oh, wait.

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    7. I can't imagine any residents who are ok with all this development. Or course, there are a few who might have some hidden agenda but the vast majority want to keep the look and character of this town. There's simply no place like it.

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    8. The good news is that we have a deep bench in this town for City Council Members. The next election will be important too.

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    9. There is no more time for talk. We have to have action. Last night was a good start. People care. We just have to tell them what to do and they will do it.

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    10. Sorry, 6:17 - not true. People do care, but are too lazy, and uncommitted to show up and work to keep the town out of the clutches of the developers. That's why City Hall feels they can do what they want. Last night was a decent showing, but how many people do you know who were "too busy" (as usual) to spend a few hours at City Hall!

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  14. The Planning Commission seems to be focused on how to make a project more palatable to everyone and not whether it should be done at all.

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  15. I think last night's meeting was a good start but we need to build on that. We need 5-10 more people to speak up and let the Planning Commission and the Ctiy Council know how we feel about preserving this town we love so much.

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  16. The garage thing presented by R. Stevie Austin was the classic Negotion 101 technique: put something in that you know won't get passed so you can give it up and appear magnanimous and thus move on to ask for what you really want. In this case, I'm certain it will be more square footage for the homes.

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    1. If they don't follow the settlement agreement, the rules should revert back to the HMZ of two acres per lot.

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    2. I agree. The garage gambit was just a tactic to divert our attention. That's a non-starter. We must focus on the other negative impacts of the project.

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    3. Its sad that, now that they've changed the Settlement agreement, certain neighbors are more affected than others. I think some neighbors didn't show up because the project became better for them and worse for their other neighbors. I thinks that's pretty selfish on their part.

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    4. They haven't changed the settlement agreement for Stonehouse yet.

      The Planning Commission & City Council should hold the Stonehouse owners to that settlement. The latest owners were fully aware of the conditions when they bought it.

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    5. I agree about the garage. Its just a red herring to distract us. They think we're stupid enough to think they really want that. Let's not lose are focus. The whole project stinks.

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  17. I notice the owner of the Heflin property never spoke at the meeting. Anybody know who this person is that wants to build a private compound up there for his family?

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    1. The owners of Carter don't want to come forward. They hire mouthpieces. Looks like it's the same with Stonehouse.

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    2. These developers send in the funniest people. It is like a comedy show.

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    3. Why do the real owners always hide behind some lawyer or some developer or spokesperson? Let's see who wants to move into this town and what they are all about. They are initiating something that has so many ramifications for the neighbors and for the community.

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    4. They just say how much they love Sierra Madre and that the want to be a part of the community.

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    5. I'd still be curious to know who they are.

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  18. It was great to hear the passion of the people who spoke. We just need more of them.

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  19. Hey Nancy, the Planning Commission took your storage out. Love it.

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    1. Isn't it great, love it 8:27
      She took herself out!

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    2. Took a lot of other things with her as well. What a disaster the Civility Party turned out to be.

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    3. A new group should be formed to preserve Sierra Madre. We can all decide what we want our town to look like. Other cities have done that successfully. I might add to that all of our property value will go up if we keep the "feel" of this town. As all the other cities around us get over-developed, Sierra Madre will be like an oasis. But it starts now before its too late.

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    4. Good post 10:21

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    5. The storage was not taken out it is being redone

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    6. Then I guess it's not an "accomplishment", is it?

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    7. 4 years of Nancy Walsh and not one iota of accomplishment, she fixated on belittling others, chiding residents as if beneath her and utter contempt for her tenue on the Council

      seriously, her entire tenure was about a storage closet?

      what a waste - so glad she is gone,had nothing to say before or while she served on the Council

      of course,she was heavily supported by the real estate crowd of misfits

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    8. Don't forget Josh - among his accomplishments as Mayor was listed that he kept 50% of the budget in reserves and balanced the budget. Which the city is legally required to do, anyway.

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  20. Can whole neighborhoods be deemed historic as is Bungalow Heaven in Pasadena. If the canyon and other homes in Sierra Madre built between let's say 1916 and the 1960's were registered with the city could the Mc Mansionites tear down houses so easily. Maybe this is a process that could be made easier so residents have a better chance for preservation. Does anyone know how this is done ?

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    Replies
    1. there is little left for a historic zone in the canyon and most including me would not be for it

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    2. 10:31 is correct. We need to put things in place in the general plan and in the zoning and other ordinances to protect this town. I suspect that even the recent efforts in the General Plan need to be reviewed in light of an unprecidented effort to change this town into Arcadia that just began a short time ago. We have to have legal safeguards in place that reflect the will of the community and not the whim of the Planning Commission or the City Council for that matter..

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    3. The key is very strict building codes and size limits if we want to avoid Arcadia. That will keep this town quaint.

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  21. Interesting idea 10:31

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  22. Flipping the UnicornMay 16, 2014 at 11:10 AM

    every time i pass by the rALF i remember to give it the salute. i am prepared to share the love all over town for each and every monstrosity built. it may not be much, but it's given freely, and with sincerity.

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  23. I would like to suggest that we form a new organization in town that has goals similar to the Caroline Brown draft points from the earlier Tattler posting. We should not have individual groups forming against each project. To kick off the launch of this new group, we can hold a "rally" at a park. What do you think?

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    1. Best place to do it would be kersting court. It is at the crossroads of town and visible to a lot of traffic.

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    2. Count me in

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    3. What about right there at City Hall? I can see alot of people, signs, speakers etc...

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    4. I like that. My sign will read "Honk If You Think McMansions Suck."

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    5. Let's get some T-Shirts and go the whole hog on this. I think Neil the Pig should be brought in as an un-paid consultant. I hope he's not drinking the water so that he doesn't go the way of Kevin's fish.

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    6. Yea, let's hope Neil is drinking bottled water otherwise he won't be around to run for City Council again or be nominated for citizen of the year.

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  24. We need to put some of these ideas into action. We need one organization within the city to accomplish all this.

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  25. The Voice of ReasonMay 16, 2014 at 12:39 PM

    It's one thing to voice your concerns for your neighborhood, it's absolutely another problem to instill senseless fear and paranoia through mass communication outlets. The so called "McMansions" that you're all afraid of because of blind belief that property tax revenue still goes to the cities themselves are horribly misguided by fear mongering cronies that are doing nothing more than to make you their puppets for their agendas. Sales Tax revenue is mostly given to the cities whereas property taxes are given to the state franchise. Please do your own research before following puppet masters such as "The Tattler" or how they appear to the outside world "Fox News Jr".

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  26. Great idea 11:29 . I would be in . Marys Market is a good place to meet too. As far as there being little left in the canyon that is historic I respectfully disagree. Take a long walk threw the beautiful canyon and you will see otherwise..

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    Replies
    1. I did not say it was not Beautiful ,It is just not historic almost all properties have been added on to or majorly changed and as a long time dweller in the canyon you will never get a agreement on anything and that included the canyon zone which was opposed by many

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    2. I thought after all the posts against Marys on the tattler as a place of the Mosca and Josh, we were told over and over again to not support it

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    3. Word is the level of clientele there has improved.

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  27. The canyon zone saved the canyon. Just in time too. Or else you'd have many more houses like the Pruitt's, huge, overwhelming any neighbors, filling every space with house. It never should have been allowed.

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    1. The Canyon was on the hit list and you can bet that if you gave certain people the latitude they would not care about the impact on their neighbors.

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    2. If you leave people to do what they want, they will build things that overwhelm the neighbors. That's the selfish age we live in. As a staunch conservative I don't like regulations any more than the next guy, but in these case we need to legislate good neighbor rules.

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  28. Absolutely saved the canyon!
    Only people opposed were the greedy realtor crowd and one particular long time resident and landlord of several canyon rentals.

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  29. One greedy landlord and his realtor gang were the only people opposed to the canyon zone.
    Thank you canyon zone committee,

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    Replies
    1. I guess we now know who Commissioner Pevsner talks to.

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    2. Mr. Pevsner never met a big house he didn't like. In fact, during one meeting, he said he wished he could build one. It'll be better when his term is over.

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    3. Pevsner couples his sick desire to enable 6,000 square foot barns with an air of supercilious dismissiveness. Yet if you ever listen to him talk, which he does endlessly, he knows very little.

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  30. The canyon zone has not done anything most lots in the canyon the house fill the lots now

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    1. How's the heat treating you? Getting enough water?

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    2. 3:04 has had too much of the MWD water.

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    3. He must have drank a lot. His eyes are yellow.

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  31. Over development destroys everything eventually. Unless we, the people stop them
    Join the fight. We can win.

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  32. 1--Create a simple questionnaire such as was done during the General Plan Up Date community meetings.

    2--Distribute it to each residence in town.

    3--Tally the results, and use them as the Guiding Principles for this new group: Sierra Madre Citizens for Community Preservation (see the Tattler: May 12, 2014)

    4--State in the questionnaire: if you don't want to be a part of the group, don't return the questionnaire. The total returns are the charter membership in the group (those who "opted out" can join later).

    5--Now you have hundreds/thousands of Sierra Madre residents who want the Guiding Principals (i.e. they will no doubt be similar to the revised General Plan) to represent them in discussion of the future of Sierra Madre.

    Note: This is parallel to but outside of the City process of the General Plan up date, but it has to be done as a citizen group not a City-appointed committee process.

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  33. I'd like to put 3:50 on any committee. Someone has to get this thing off the ground or at least a few key people. I have some people in mind. Please folks, throw some names out so that we can contact them. We need to start the ball rolling. The folks over at the Coaltion to Save Mater Dolorsa are pretty organized but this has to expand beyond them. Mater Dolorosa is just a small part of a larger problem.

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  34. Good post 3:50. That's what needs to be done. If everyone can throw out the names of some people who would be good to be in on the formation of this group and bring it to life, that would be helpful.

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