Tuesday, May 12, 2015

Councilman Goss's Secret Correspondence: The Results From The Tattler Public Records Act Request Are Now In

You got mail!
As you may recall, it was after Gene Goss had proclaimed before God and City Council a few weeks back that he had been receiving a lot of messages and complaints from unidentified sources about the Planning Commission's reforms on the R1 "One Family Residential Zone" that we decided it was time to do a little investigating. It isn't often that a group of people who don't show up at meetings, care to make public comment, or even allow their names to be mentioned, exerted so much influence on an important matter here.

The Tattler believes that the people of Sierra Madre have a right to know who exactly these folks might be. Under California state law most communication between elected officials and constituents is property of the public, and all are entitled to share in what might have been discussed. Government in our democracy truly is the peoples' business, and in that spirit we filed (to use Elaine Aguilar's quite precise wording), a "Request for Public Records, pursuant to the California Public Records Act, Government Code Section 6250 et. seq." Whatever that is, I did it.

In other words, I wanted copies of any e-mails that Councilman Goss may have either received or sent dealing with the R1 Zoning controversy. It was The Tattler's assumption that, given Councilman Goss's official public statements, there must be a lot of these e-mails. I wanted to see who sent them, and what their issues might be.

Yesterday I went to Sierra Madre City Hall to pick up 107 pages of correspondence that had Councilman Goss's city email address on them. And after careful examination of each of these documents I can now report with complete confidence the following results.

1) None of these emails were sent to Councilman Goss alone. Virtually all of them bore the City of Sierra Madre email addresses of all five Councilmembers.

2) Out of the 107 pages of emails I was given while visiting with the efficient and attentive staff working the front counter at City Hall, almost all of these messages strongly favored the Planning Commission's wise decisions on the R1 "One Family Residential Zone" question.

3) Only two persons out of all those who sent in emails actually took the side of whatever it is Councilmen Harabedian and Goss have been going on about these last few weeks.

What this could mean is that Councilman Goss exclusively conducts his business with the residents over the phone, or instead prefers to employ alternative means of communication. Like carrier pigeons, or microfiche hidden Whittaker Chambers style under the rocks in Memorial Park.

There are those possibilities, though I have my doubts.

Our thorough examination of each of these e-mails (which is the widely preferred form of communication for most residents these days), turned up almost nothing that would support Gene Goss's contention that he has been contacted by a substantial amount of concerned residents fearful that they will not be allowed to build McMansion style houses in Sierra Madre.

That said, there are two e-mails in particular that I thought I'd share with you today. They are both from the same individual, and each is a bit edgy. I would hope that this is not who Mr. Goss was citing when he spoke about communicating with the public. I would also hate to think that what you will be reading below in any way influenced Gene's decisions on the R1 question.

Here is the first:


The author of the above email seems to be confused on one point in particular. It is Councilmen Goss and Harabedian who would like to see the UUTax raised beyond 6%, not those he labels "Socialist"and "Anti-American." It also strikes me as illogical that he would bemoan that the city is going broke, and then tell Sierra Madre's City Council to stick the UUT "where the sun don't shine."

Here is a second email from this gentleman.


Like I said, since Mr. Mysza is one of only two persons out of that big heap of emails I was handed yesterday who sided with Gene Goss, it would be sad to think that this is what the Councilman was referring to when he spoke about constituents who had influenced his decision on the R1 One Family Residential Zone question.

An important e-mail from Barry Gold

Mod: This made the rounds yesterday, and as usual Barry nails it.

May 11, 2015

Mayor John Capoccia
Mayor Pro-Tem Gene Goss
Council Member Rachelle Arizmendi
Council Member Denise Delmar
Council Member John Harabedian
City of Sierra Madre
232 W. Sierra Madre Blvd.
Sierra Madre, CA 91024

Dear Mayor and Council Members,

The house that will be built at 1145 E. Grandview, after the existing home is torn down, does not require a CUP and a public hearing before the planning commission because it is under the current CUP threshold.  The current threshold is projects over 4,000 S.F.  This house is exactly 4,000 S.F., not over 4,000 S.F.

Consequently the decision as to whether the design, bulk, or mass infringes on the neighbors rights to privacy etc. is left to the Planning Director.  This is a lot to ask of one person and has not worked well in the past.  The two Camillo houses are evidence of that.

Today I looked over the plans for the new house at 1145 E. Grandview and the only way I can describe the design is “Camillo on Steroids”.

If this is not an overwhelming reason for the council to pass the R-1 changes so the seven member Planning Commission can review such projects I do not know what would be.

Ordinance 1364 is by far our best protection yet when it comes to preserving the unique character of our city. 

Any more changes, to achieve unanimity, will require another second reading and then you may find you still need to make even more changes and during this time the door remains open for more Camillo style houses to be built.  The damage will be irreversible.  

If you pass the ordinance, as is, the seven members of the planning commission will review two story houses to make sure they conform to the goals of the General Plan and the chances of getting it right are seven times better.

You can make future changes if you want, and no irreversible damage will have been done.

Passing the ordinance tomorrow night and monitoring its use is certainly the more prudent and safer way of preserving Sierra Madre, and that would truly be in the best interest of the people who live here.

Respectfully, Barry Gold

As you can see, the stakes are real and quite imminent for this community. It is time for Councilmen Goss and Harabedian to end their pointless campaign of obstruction and get this ordinance passed.

Tonight would be as good a time as any.

sierramadretattler.blogspot.com

133 comments:

  1. maybe Gene received his plethora of messages on his private email, which, since he is a public figure, should also be open for review by the public.

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    1. so Dave Mysza is the "nebulous" force?

      in the form of a cloud or haze; hazy

      unclear, vague, or ill-defined

      yeah, I'd say he was the "nebulous" force

      but Goss implied that he was hearing from allot of people who supported his position and it was just one and if he is using his personal email for city business he should be forthright and disclose because he's hiding behind unsubstantiated claims to rationalize his own position

      he sound sort of like Dave

      obscure and murky

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    2. Mr. Myrsa is completely wrong and almost laughable.

      This city hasn't "jacked" around the hillside developer for "years" - we've gone through a series of "developers" one worse than the last who come to us with outlandish demands and half thought out ideas and then throw temper tantrums demanding their way.

      Jeez, Dave, get a grip on reality for a few fleeting seconds.

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    3. If Councilmember Goss conducts city business on private email (which is against a prior Council's resolution that all city business should be done on archivable City email) he needs to surrender copies of same to the City archives. That is, unless he's channelling his inner Hillary Clinton.

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    4. We can't get Goss's personal emails because he's probably wiped his server clean by now.

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    5. Here's the point. Goss and Harabedian are now on their third attempt to water down the R-1 codes that after extensive discussion and debate were recommended by the Planning Commission - the experts on these issues. We know now that Goss received virtually no communications via his City email address that were from people against the R-1 codes. Since Goss seems to feel so adamant about this issue, don't you think he would have asked all the many people who are against it that he mentioned hearing from to write an email to the other City Council members or show up at the City Council meeting to bolster support for his position. Don't you think he would have done that? But nothing, absolutely nothing. That tells me that all the people who support his position don't exist.

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    6. Wow 7:20, that is the point.

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    7. 6:28, about nebulosity. Goss had accused the preserve side of being paranoid and frightened of "nebulous forces." He didn't say his supporter was nebulous. As it turns out, his one clear supporter is anything but nebulous.

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    8. I think 7:20 hit the nail on the head. Let's say Goss is talking to someone on the phone or on the street and they are telling him how much they hate the proposed changes to the R-1 ordinance. He knows that you have to have that "second reading" of the vote or in this case what is now going to be effecdtively a third reading. So knowing he will get another bite at the apple, wouldn't he say to them, "Don't just tell me this, please send an email to all the other City Council members or come to the meeting so that they all know your position". I mean wouldn't he almost demand that of them so that he and Harabedian aren't the only ones who appear to be against the R-1 changes. Yet no emails and no is speaking up at the meetings. The only conclusion that anyone can reach from this is that Gene Goss did not have that kind of support for this position - that it in fact never existed. But to avoid looking foolish and avoid that he and Harabedian and perhaps some unknown developer or friend who may be hampered by the new codes were literally the only ones opposed to the new R-1 codes, he tells everyone a little fib - namely, that all these people are against the proposed R-1 codes. Thanks to the Tattler for exposing this for what it is.

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  2. Am I a tree hugging left wing kook, or an old time right winger? Hmm. Going to need to think about that. Can an old time right winger also be a tree hugger?

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    1. LetThe Process work.

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    2. Me too, 6:15. Of course, with the drought, I'm losing trees to hug. Guess I'd better go over to 1145 and hug a few before they get cut down. Of course, Harabedian will say that is a good thing - fewer trees to water. Everyone reading this, come to the City Council meeting tonight (6:30) so Goss knows his secret is out, and may actually do the right thing for our town. Dave, does that make me a wacko Commie?

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    3. Myzsa missed my affiliation - I'm far left but hate trees. Do I still qualify in the Wacko Party?

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    4. I hugged my trees so much that they took out a restraining order.

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    5. I think right wingers and left wingers all don't want to see Sierra Madre turned into another Arcadia.

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  3. Dave Mysza should run for Council. He'd fit in not having any facts to back up his claims, making wild childish accusations, belittling and down right kooky as he rants about the 3 that actually voted with conscious.

    But he did get it right with sticking the UUT rate hike where the sun don't shine.

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    Replies
    1. He's make a great write-in candidate. "Vote for me and get a free tinfoil hat".

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    2. Maybe he could write for the Mountain Views News.

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    3. He'd be a perfect Hail Hamilton replacement. Maybe he is Hail Hamilton.

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    4. Unlike Hail, I think Dave writes his own material.

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    5. I dunno. Have you ever seen them together?

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  4. Dave must be from the Civility Party.

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  5. Today's weather: nebulous with a slight chance of showers.

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  6. Nasty Nancys second cousin would be a guess. Has dirty Dave contributed a lot of money to his pets on the council and gave a lot of money to city hall through building permits?? Mr. Mysza has a lot of hate in him.

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  7. Dave seems to think he is a part of the majority in town. Thank God it is a silent one.

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  8. The Tattler didn't find any emails against the R-1 changes for the simple reason that there aren't any (other than Dave who doesn't really count). Some private party or developer undoubtedly leaned on Goss and Harabedian because of a particular project where their plans for some big McMansion would be thwarted by the new R-1 codes. That's what's going on here. They put the best interests of one friend of theirs ahead of the best interests of the entire city of Sierra Madre. That's not exactly representing your constiuents unless you believe your job is to represent the one over the many. Another name for that is corruption.

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    1. 7:09, I hate to say it but I think you're right. I just don't understand why they would do this otherwise.

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    2. It wouldn't surprise me now that they've been called out on this, if Harabedian and Goss actually do manage to get some people to come out to the meeting tonight on their 3rd try. They've been backed into a corner on this.

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    3. Unfortunately Elaine Aguilar can't go to the podium and offer her thoughts.

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    4. No. But one or two councilmembers speak them for her.

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  9. I think we have seen all we are going to see of Professor Goss's correspondance. Obviously he has received little support for his position on development, and his claims are without merit.

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  10. Goss and Harabedian are representing some very narrow interests when they come out against the R-1 codes. Doing favors for your buddies at the expense of the majority of residents in Sierra Madre is something you find in the City of Bell or perhaps the City of Industry. That's not something we want to see happening in Sierra Madre.

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    Replies
    1. You don't know how the process works. Goss & Harabedian are smarter than you, 7:13.

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    2. If Gene said there are emails supporting him, then they must exist. It is just taking a little longer to find them than he'd hoped.

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    3. Gene's imaginary friends are very uncooperative when it comes to releasing emails.

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  11. Goss and Mysza must have made a nice pair of dads sitting in the Little League grandstands encouraging their sons to excell at the game while belittling the umpire (didn't like a call and shouting '...blah, blah blah ... sun don't shine...' and the opposition team and parents in not so muffled tones.

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  12. Dave seems to be active in soft ball and owns some kind of green cleaning supplies in Arcadia. Lives on Grandview and over the years has written to various newspapers in the same obscure way. I think he has stated he is ultra conservative. He sounds a little off the cliff if you ask me.

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    Replies
    1. Dave needs to take some of his green cleaning supplies and wash his mouth out.

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    2. Since he attacks the left and the right, and he's clearly not got the temperament to be a medium anything, I figure he might be an anarchist.

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    3. Most of the anarchists I've met talk about things like how best to boil lentils.

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    4. The anarchist cookbook: red lentil dal
      http://libcom.org/blog/the-button/the-anarchist-cookbook-16112006

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  13. When you look at the Tale of Two Cities, it is no coincidence that one of the reasons for the difference between Arcadia and Sierra Madre occured when Barry and Judy Gold moved from Arcadia to Sierra Madre.

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  14. Citizens who want no growth? Mr. Mysza is resurrecting one of the canards against the preservationists that was repeated ad nauseum during the Measure V campaign.
    Slow does not mean no, ya dunce.

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    1. If you are not in favor of allowing people to build whatever they want on whatever size lot they buy, no matter what the consequences are to their neighbors, you are against all growth, a communist, a socialist, a wacko, paranoid and causing the destruction of Sierra Madre. So there.

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    2. The pro-development crown is only focused on the property rights of the one owner to do whatever they want with their property. They seem to forget that the neighbors also have property rights also.

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    3. Yes, the do have their entitlement issues, don't they.

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  15. Stunning discovery Tattler.
    Thanks so much for spending that $6

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    1. I hope you will be attending the fund raiser.

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    2. Tell you what good sir - I'll donate a full 50%.

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    3. A request for public records and manipulation them for ones own cause is hardly a "stunning discovery"
      More like muckraking.

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    4. If there is muck, then it has got to be raked.

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    5. 9:45, 7:49 here. I am stunned that a councilman would claim that he had numerous supporters when the proof clearly demonstrates otherwise. So let me reword the post: stunning proof that you've presented Tattler. Better?

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    6. Maybe Goss can refute the Tattlers claim by coming into the City Council chambers with a stack of emails against the R-1 improvements that were recommended by our very own Planning Commission - people who are experts in these issues and who live in the city. I'd like to know who exactly Gene Goss to advocating for. Is it the "nebulous forces" that he accused other people of worrying about or is it one owner who has one project that may be impacted by the implementation of the new R-1 codes.

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    7. There are other ways to communicate than Email. Snapchat for instance, no paper trail........

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    8. Snapchat? You mean as in developer selfies?

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    9. No Grandpa lol you must be over 19 years old if you don't know what Snapchat is?

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    10. I do have a selfie stick.

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    11. Well your remark was aptly posted at 420 also

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  16. I find it depressing that a teacher like Goss does not recognize destructive extremism when it's emailed to him.

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  17. Stop nattering please.
    Goss lied.More than once.
    He lied to the entire City to obstruct a move that was in the best interests of the citizens of Sierra Madre.
    That is corruption.
    Recall?

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    Replies
    1. Sure, if you've got the 10 thousand (probably 12 or 15 by now) and the army of dedicated foot soldiers,

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    2. what!? A city council member lied during a council meeting? I am shocked, shocked.

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    3. Indeed. That's never happened before.

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    4. Goss is teetering on the precipice of precipitating a recall movement.

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  18. This man Goss is a pathetic fool.

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  19. People have said that John Haraedian is ambitious for higher office. If that's the case, he needs to disassociate himself from Gene Goss. If he appears to be alligned too closely with Gene Goss on every issue, its going to hurt him. Goss beats to a different and strange drum. Harabedian needs to let Goss flame out on his own without taking Harabedian down with him.

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    Replies
    1. Gene plays the bongo drums.

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  20. I'm one of those "old time right wingers' who lives in a modest 1800 sq. ft. home who pays way, way more than $400. per year in taxes. So if that's the only criteria for blaming me for the city's financial trouble, think again. And, by the way, I only have 2 trees left due to the drought but I do hug them every morning.

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  21. Harabedian will have a surprise up his sleeve tonight. I don't know what it will be but it will be good, or bad for those of us who want the R-1 changes passed.

    I hope Capoccia, Delmar, and Arizmendi, hold fast and pass the Ordinance.

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  22. Hello Councilman Goss, This is your secret admirer hoping that you will be able to get those three council members to agree to another change so there will be another reading of the ordinance. I have my plans almost finished - maybe a couple of months or so. Please hold them off as long as you can. Thank You

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  23. Um, 11:45 you really should address Goss as Mayor Pro-Tem, not Councilman. Show some respect.

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    Replies
    1. MPT, yeah you know me!

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    2. The thought of Gene Goss as Mayor makes me shudder.

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  24. Me too 1:23. What happened to the theory that this was an illegal vote because Mayor Capoccia seconded the nomination?

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    Replies
    1. Capoccia seconded for Goss because the silence was deafening.

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  25. There are other more important mountains to climb besides looking for a mayor/mayor pro-tem fight, as distasteful as it is to see Goss as mayor

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  26. why does city hall continue to hire more full time city employees?

    this month city hall hired 3 more full time employees...

    city hall states that the city is broke, who is paying there salaries?

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  27. just think city hall has two more mayor(s) which elaine can buffalo... its jonny c & genney g

    if everyone thinks we need change, maybe there is a spot for Obama for mayor

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  28. Meeting has begun! Whopee!

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  29. Goss is fixing the minutes.

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    Replies
    1. Mr. Goss claimed that he didn't say "This is generally wrong" at some point. Our city clerk is awfully good at minutes, so I have my doubts. Sounds like something he'd say...

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  30. I see several pro-development people here. Goss has a busy man with Mr. Harabedian. Everyone did a great job according to Mr. Goss.

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    1. Any pro development names?

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    2. Not great, 6:46. Fantastic, beautiful, wonderful. And he's soooo grateful.

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  31. Picture of winning float given and new float design is passed to council.

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  32. Good points from Ron Coleman. What are individual water goals under Jerry Brown's 32% edict?

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  33. Mr. Polen (sp) is speaking about summer rates changing, i.e. water.

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  34. Rick Chun is speaking about house next to him at 1145 Grandview. Concerned about massing and privacy issues. Sees back yard, bedroom. They were not advised of building. Concerns about house being so close to street as it is a traffic problem. Has asked for design to be reviewed.

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    Replies
    1. Every meeting Harabedian and Goss hold up the R1, the more of these we'll get.

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    2. I thought it was Chung, with a g, and what he said was that the new house going up next door is designed so that the windows look directly into the current residents' bedroom, dining room, kitchen, back yard - in other words, it's a perfect Macmansion invasion of privacy.
      But hey, they are just residents. The people building the house are some sort of out of town development deal, so of course, they matter a lot more.

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    3. We have GOT to help these people if we possibly can. Wife is in a wheelchair with a service dog. Nice people who shouldn't have this happening. The R-1 modifications passed tonight 3-2. Too late for the Chungs, unfortunately.

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  35. swimming people offering safety. I guess it is Mr. Coleman-his levels are the same in water per Elaine. As for water going into spread from water truck. Goal is to capture all water. Mayor asked if modification to truck has been done. Looking to see if they can do it in house or send it out. Elaine says we get no credit for putting hydrant water into spread.

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  36. As for Chung question: It fills all R-1 requirements. Complys with current . In other words, no help for the Chung's(sp). No mention that no sign posted-doesn't need one according to current laws.

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    Replies
    1. What a disappointment!
      Not one damn person offered to try and make things better for them.
      Can't the Planning Director have a dialogue with the development entity and see if some improvement can be made?

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  37. Laurie Cooper given an award. Outstanding work for community, older citizen.

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  38. Gag me Tom Love up next. a year ago we hoped for rain didn't come. it has gotten worse, more serious than a year ago. WASN'T IT HIM THAT SAID THERE WAS NO PROBLEM?

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    Replies
    1. I think Water Wise Owl gave him a talking to.

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    2. Yes 7:14 it was indeed he who said foolish things!
      He actually said, ominously, "It's gotten serious now."

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    3. I couldn't believe it when he said that there are actually people who don't know about our severe drought. Well, duh, Mr. Love, you told us all a year ago that there was no drought!

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  39. Oh my, it's Tom Love. Do we still have a lot of water?

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    1. I resent having to give Mr. Love 25 minutes of a council meeting for him to tell us things that anyone who reads any news at all already knows.

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    2. Water board meetings are like that. Men who drone on for hours telling each other things they already know.

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    3. drip...drip...drip...

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    4. Plus several things he said were either erroneous or four years old.

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  40. Lovely graphs about rain and snowfall. gives us a bunch of info we know. Like it's history-building the pipeline from San Berdoo, etc. providing grant money-$75,000.00 given to Sierra Madre. Rebate program. Picture of pretty pipes, will schedule another tour of facility if requested. to put in perspective-water comes from vast basin to store water. 80% of water used for agriculture. 3 bdrm/4 person home-landscaping 57%, showers 17%-pulled the picture. 2014 hottest year in California. Seems I remember hotter summers when I was a kid. Drought now in 8th year. map of Ca this year severe exceptional drought. picture of mountains with no snow this year. shrinking resevoirs. fallow fields. dead orchards up the 5 freeway. state action timeline from the state-25% water reduction. 7.5. billion water bond starting to be distributed. Love istrying to get some of that money. Of the 4 cities in this water group we have the highest penalty at 32%. picture of our lovely water banners. Denial of some there is no drought. working with schools to give water saving plants, etc. wants new street banners. educational web site up and running with tips. future: water rate increase, wants to expand rebates, study recycled water program feasibilty. Last sign is PRAY FOR RAIN. Capoccia asks if anyone has questions. Goss asks if the Rocky Mtn. snow packs has helped the Colorado R? Love says Rockies were unusually dry this year.

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    Replies
    1. Was any of that new information? One bit of it?

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  41. Recycling will take two years to study. 5000 acre feet in reserve for sierra madre. Love says we're down on savings account and may have to resort to credit cards. AND THEY (THE CITY) WANT TO BUILD MORE AND BIGGER HOUSES! Buy a lot with a meter and you're in like flynn.

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  42. OK, can we move this along a little? The meeting is over an hour old and we are not even to the Consent Calendar yet.

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  43. New planning director is present. Capoccia wants Love to have a contingency plan. If this continues for a couple of years wants people to know now what we might be facing in the future. Love will take it to planning commission will add it to agenda.

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  44. Vincent Gonzalez is being committed. Elaine says he's learning fast that sierra madre is busy. Glad to join management. wants to cooperate with council, city, staff, people. Capoccia made us clap for him.

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    1. It was a true burst of enthusiasm.

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    2. He also said he was looking forward to working with the community. Hope he means it. He can represent those residents on Grandview in discussion with the faceless developer/s of the property next door to them, and educate the developer/s on a little legal document called the General Plan.

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  45. Redevelopment man.

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  46. Now we get pictures from Inman. saved 6 1/2 million gallons this year. we're at tier 8 by the state. goes over the rules. have been assessing fines. 1 customer has had their 2nd citation=250.00. State will be watching if we fine and educate citizens.

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  47. Elaine listing consent calander. capoccia wants clarification of clerical error. a motion to approve both Goss and Harabedian take exception on R-1. Capoccia says they all carry.

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    Replies
    1. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

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    2. No mystery McMansion men were hurt in this process.

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    3. They never showed up - the Gossians and Harabedianishers never showed up.

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  48. 354 N. Canon Dr. asked for historical designation. Built by Frank Stiff in 1914. List of defining features of Craftman style. Many trees on lot, large lot shows early development of city. Owners have done a lot of work but have maintained original stone. restored river rock fireplace. Beautiful house. Planning says it meets signifcant historical element. PC adopted. Planning says to pass. Property owners are in attendance. Spears get up to speak. They love the place. Mr. Spears is a structural engineer. Barbara Lee supports this. Used to ride her horse around there. Mr. Coleman, been inside the house, fantastic saving of a beautiful house. Great asset to community. Comments from council. Arizmendi commends-supports. Delmar-thank you for saving treasure. Harabedian loves it, offerred to buy it. Good preservation more residents should do this. Goss adds his voice to what everyone else is saying. Meet findings. Unanimous

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  49. inman again. Mr. Reynoso, and the consultant who'e name I can neither spell or say. Inman says he wishes he had a better report. Under our conservation attempts we should be okay.

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  50. Limited options. blending of water-not a viable options. Recommend putting chloramine disinfection allows for blending. See staff report. Progress is ongoing as to water color. Want to put chloramine in our well water. Goss-a lot of problems with chloramine-read reports-cover all the bases sciientifically. when wells are up and running can we ditch the chloramine. Inman says maybe. If we stop coloring will begin again. Nitrification is a public health issue. Delmar wants corrosion report prior to blending. Inman calls on Mr. Reynoso and doctor. I really can't understand what she says. Great accent tho!

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    Replies
    1. I was there and I couldn't understand what she said, and I was a French major.

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  51. Golden Waters Inman discussing nitrification. I wonder how many people understand how dangerous that is.

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  52. Clippers are losing. It's cuz I'm not there to cheer them om. Harabedian asks about costs of equipment. Inman says putting it together. Budgeted 150,000. Need mixers today-46,000 for chlorination machine does not include putting it in. Mixers are 60,000. In interim are injecting chloramine & chlorine. Chloramine is a mixture of chlorine and ammonia. Inman say we are using the wells. Tunnel water diverted to channel downstream. Warm water at top, cooler at bottom. Had problem with chlorine because of that. Goss don't need mixers if we return to chlrinated water. Inman says yes, but we could use them, Mr. Reynoso-flushed system for corrosion,

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  53. Bruce says it is chloramines for ever.

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  54. Chloramine residuals stay in pipe. Much more stable disinfection. Capoccia-how much of color is from bought water or chloramine. Dr. says they are different as far as infection-the chloramine vs chlorine. Having chloramine in wells better as water ages until we have enough. Dr. says there is a change in water ecosystem. What is bad about nitrofication: bacteria forms nitrate and nitrate. Acute contaminants. They consume and decrease chloramine and allow infection. If left unattended and see that natrofication is increasing, higher problems to public.

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  55. Capoccia says we can pass the bill for the mixers, can we wait on the other? Inman says we need to start chloramination (sp) , Arizmendi says this is done in stages. How long will it take? Inman says a year. Ariz_will you have enough tests to make a good decision. Sept ot oct will have a report. If we start now he can have staff look into bids for equipment needed. Haranedian asks the dr. has a plan to do less flushing. Hara-amt of flushing needs to be done? Dr says because of the way the peipes are water collects and corrodes. Has to get out of sytem somehow. Hopin it decreases. Because of man dead ends in pipe, must be flushed. Inman-Chief Hiedorf has allowed use of water tanker. Will start using and fire dept. will be helping.

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  56. Benita Gurdenker (sp) says on Saturday while it was cool and water was yellow. Shows a white rubber pan they let water into. It's black on the bottom, she says there is black sediment. It also smells. Capoccia asked if other neighbors have the proble,? she said only talked to 1 neighbor who has no problems. Capoccia says it happened to him yesterday. Delmar say her water is starting to smell. Speaker Tim doesn't want his kids to grow a third eye. The sealent that is used on the pipes does it have an effect. Saw water gushing last week, below Grandview not going to basin. Above Grandview water goes to basin. below water goes to drain. Barbara Lee wants water macines around town to help people. Mr. Coleman-heard earlier still doing some pumping, quoting 500 ft rule, how arcadia was able to put in 2 new wells without approval. 60,000 for blenders (mixers) than come back later to ask for more money. Is there a target? Like not to exceed this amount of money. Capoccia says it will have to come back to council at a later date. how does a blender help a dead end like at Fairview when it sits in the shop.

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    1. That was Birgitta Gerlinger who brought in her black dishpan. She is a very level headed person so to see her at Council was a surprise and indicative of how far this problem is pushing people.

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  57. Deb Sheridan still has yelloe water. Has a new white t-shirrt that is now yellow. Deb wants to know if water is safe to drink as The British Home said they cannot give patients water from tap. They need to filter it. Inman says chloramine is safe to drink. Wouldn't be using it if it wasn't good. Mixers help water when it comes in and goes out. Minimal pumping done on the wells to keep them working even below level. Health dept has assured that yellow water is safe to drink. Re-piping is not shown to generally help.

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    1. Just google chloramines effects and stand back.

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  58. Harabedian is okay with 60,000 for 2 mixers. Need to talk about future expenditures. Delmar not good with going with chloramine, We had consultant to figure out where yellow water is from. After 2 years we don't know. There's sediment and turning buckets black. Wants to know why corrosion. Okay with 60,000, mixers. Going with chloramines can't go for it. Gos-can go with what he's heard. Needs to have more discussion on chloramines. Need to be practical and make nitrization is low as possible. Issue of mystery colored water, not getting a consistent explanation. Need more testing. Take this very seriously. Arizmendi-Unfortunate situation. In mean time looking forward and long term. Water needs to be safe. I am trusting the Dr. in her testing. Looking forward to plan in sept. Invest in mixers because we need them today. Not for chloramination. Capoccia-MWD water for a long time, we have no choice. Don't need to make a decision about chloramines. Buy the mixers. No consensus on chloramines although he thinks they should do it. Goss hope springs eternal we'll have rain. Capoccia can't pump water unless we chlormination. Capoccia-when can we start pumping 960 sf of water? Inman sent letter to arcadia about there usage. Hard to answer because his crystal ball is out of order. Capoccia-thought we would be able to switch back to out water and just use chlorine. But he sees it's more difficult. When do you need to know? Inman-doesn't know if acquifier will come back, Delmar stresses we need to know the cause of the colored water. Inman says they are studing but cannot say when they'll have an answer. Capoccia consensus. Delmar wants scientific reports sooner. And it is break time. And I'm leaving.

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  59. I hope you all stayed awake long enough to listen to the budget discussion. Talk of closing down whole departments on July 1st such as Community Services and perhaps planning dept. Can't close the library because it is State Law, but they can fire everyone except one or two part-timers to keep it open a couple of hours a day. Denise says they shouldn't be so hasty about closing departments because the city does have reserves, and they need to spend a couple of months making a good plan rather than being in panic mode and coming up with something that no one can live with. Goss says, they voted down the UUT and still want a balanced budget, so he says, do what we need to do by July 1st.

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