Covering Sierra Madre, Pasadena, Arcadia and the San Gabriel Valley
It should be pretty interesting to see which "local realtors" want to drive that gauntlet. I guess the fact that this secret meeting with the local realtors leaked out shows that not every realtor favors over-development.
They could wear paper bags on their heads.
I would never do business with a realtor that would attend a meeting like that.
It will also be interesting to see how "local" the realtors are? Are they contacting the realtors from Arcadia who have been so instrumental in changing that town?
Yes, the Arcadia Realtors are an aggressive group. Be nice to see if John Wuo or whatzizname Chandler attend.
Maybe they will pitch the development project and Gemcoin.
They should. GemCoin is backed by amber mine.
Will they sell their souls for some wine and cheese......and a $30,000 commission?
Constructive dialog is necessary let them talk
I will be there. Thanks Tattler.
This may be one of those important moments when a city comes together for a common purpose: preserving open space and preserving their quality of life. I can understand that The Passionists in Chicago who own the land and the people who are spearheading the housing project from Mater Dolorosa, Jerry Peason from Arcadia and Cam Thornton from Burbank, want to squeeze the most money they can out of that land, but there are other considerations like the quality of life for those left behind who have to deal with such a massive housing project on a daily basis.
Obviously Thornton and Pearson don't give a damn. I am troubled by the Passionists going along with this destructive development scheme.
One problem is that the actual owners are far away in Chicago. Why should they care about Sierra Madre or the conflict this creates. All coming from a religious organization. Is it no wonder that religion is in trouble. They should be promoting peace and harmony and not be money grubbing about getting their hands on the 30 pieces of silver.
They should sell off the whole property not just the lower 20 acres to a group like the Self-Realization Fellowship. Have you seen their properties? Beautiful grounds. They would never sell off portions of their properties. Keep it intact for people who really care about it. The way the Passionists used to care about it for about 80 years until they got highjacked by this present Board of Directors stacked with developers.
I would agree to sell off all the land. They obviously don't care about it. Once you sell off land, its gone forever. Somebody would later be kicking themselves that they broke up the largest undeveloped open space in Sierra Madre. It would be a crime.
They need to find better stewards for that property. Once you sell it, its gone for ever. If any true visionaries get on the Mater Dolorosa Board, they will end up kicking themselves that they sold off the property. The only problem is that they have done this before. They did it in Texas a few years ago with a great piece of property which they sold off and is now ringed by McMansions.
If this project were to go through, I really feel sorry for the people at Sunnyside and perhaps Grove/Carter who not only have to deal with the traffic from the 40-50 large homes with many occupants and their visitors but also truck after truck grinding up their street hauling dirt and building materials for two years or so. That's the resulting carnage from such a project. But I guess that in the chase for the almighty dollar, they and many others affected by such a project are just collateral damage.
It does seem that the residents in that area will be paying a very high price. Are the Passionists still telling people this is to fund their retirements or have they moved on to another story?
The story seems to change all the time. They have said that its to raise money for about 60 retired priests. That probably sounded too selfish so they said that its also to support their mission in South America and India. The whole thing smells rotten in Denmark. It didn't need to be sold since 1924. Why now? I guess the new breed of religious leaders have a different focus.
Someone had to bring in a truck to build the house you live in..
Mine is an older home. I believe the materials were brought in by donkey. If the Passionists would agree to that I would be glad to support their development.
Sierra Madre is already built out. Does 8:21 want to keep conserving water so that there is more in the well for the developers. I don't think so. They need two roads coming out of there. As bad as it will be for Sunnyside, where is the other road going to situated?
That second gate (and Passionatopia would be a gated community since they are already in place) would be the east one. Which means all of those semis, bulldozers and tractor trailer trucks would rumble on in from Grove and Carter. Plus all the other streets they would have to take to get to the far northern edge of town.
It would be dusty and noisy for two years at least during the construction. You would think it just might disturb the serenity of the retreat center do but do they care? I don't think so. After that you have all the traffic and noise, traffic lights, parking meters. Sounds too good to be true.
Hell comes to your house. Courtesy of the One True Church.
I'm a little unclear on the comments. Soooo, if the Passionist don't develop and end up insolvent and the whole parcel goes up for auction, that would be better, how?Are the commenters aware that if the whole parcel sold, that it sure as heck would be developed? 80-100 acres would bring in the BIG developers who have the big law firms that would crush little Sierra Madre.In other words, win the battle and lose the war.
Under your scenario the property either gets developed by the current folks or it gets developed by others. Either way it gets developed. So why would you say there is the difference?
Uh oh. It is the old "they'll sue us" defense. In this case it would be by mystery participants. Is that you, John Buchanan?
I'm thinking the big guys will go higher density. No way they'd only build 30-40 units on all that acreage.
Do we know who these big guys would be? Are they 7 foot tall? Like the giant in Jack and the Beanstalk? And how exactly would they circumvent Sierra Madre's law on such matters? 8 foot tall lawyers?
I hear they have size 21 shoes.
I'm thinking the big developers could drop a lot more money on legal. Sierra Madre with its tiny little law firm would choke on $100,000 of legal fees. Hell, they're still paying leagl fees on Carter 1, I think.
Vintage development BS from way back when. Don;t you people ever come up with anything new? Te people of Sierra Madre are fully within their rights to defend their interests. Take your Munich Defense and shove it.
7:12 refers to "big guys." If I am not mistaken New Urban West, the guys who were originally going to build this nonsense on God's lands, are about as big as they get. And they ran away with their tails between their legs.
New Urban West was smart enough to realize that they would be running into a buzz saw if they try to shove that housing project down our throats. So the greedy developers understand it. We just need to get the pious priests to understand it also. Or maybe they don't care about stirring up a hornets nest and creating ill-will and bad feeling. Greed trumps all else.
7:04, so no zoning codes apply?
7:04 is a troll. Probably paid for.
Come on 7:04. I could threaten to rezone my R-1 property for a hotel. If everyone doesn't cave into me someone else will then turn it into a hotel. A re-zoning is a very serious matter and simply can't be done if it adversely impact on the community.
I am going to rezone my property for a nuclear power plant. I own the property so it is my right.
I'm worried. If we don't agree to the nuclear power plan, we'll get sued. I also presume that if you don't do it some big bad nuclear power plant contractor will come in and build it. Ok, I give up. Build your plant.
One Carter was sold in 1999, the Heflin property a few years later. If we hadn't fought both projects over and over, we'd now have another 100 houses in inappropriate places - MacMansions. What do you see? Not a house! There is strength in numbers. Show the realtors what Sierra Madreans are made of, that we do care what happens to our town, and we are not Arcadia. We do have a City Council that will fight for us, AND the General Plan was passed last week, strengthening the zoning laws.
Heflin's property will be developed, the Hillside agreement guaranteed that. R-1 McMansions, big, big, big.
I heard that the monastery property was R-1 before the '96 general plan. That'd be easy to get a court to flip back to R-1 from institutional. Be careful what you ask for.
Is that before or after the pigs fly? It his been 10 years since the worst city council ever (John Buchanan) unleashed a terrible developer on that site. Not one house built. That ought to be in the Guinness Book of World Records.
Can't somebody come up with the $20 million to buy the open land?
9:54 - and I hear you just make stuff up. The new General Plan is ratified and in place. It is the only one that counts now. Whatever happened in the 1980s doesn't matter anymore.
Keep telling yourself that 10:02. Hope you're not an attorney for the city.
Have another drink, 10:05.
9:47. There are two openings on the Planning Commission that will be filled Tuesday night. Vandervelt, an architect is pro development and pro big houses and pro variances. He is not a friend to The Village. He spoke for over eleven minutes against the new R1 standards. He claimed everything was fine the way it was.
It won't take 15 million to buy the land. It would take about 10-15 million but should take only 10 if they weren't so greedy and didn't see the benefit to the retreat center of keeping the open space.
Capoccia will vote for Vandervelt. Not because he agrees with his stance on development, but to be fair.
Vanderveldt would be a disaster. He is philosophically opposed to all the good things that the Planning Commission and City Council have put into place. Why would anyone in their right mind vote for him. Don't forget, he also spoke passionately at the meeting to tear down the Mira Monte house and never revealed that he was going to be the architect for the project. Unbelievable.
Is "open carry" allowed in public places in Sierra Madre?
Don't be an ass.
Californians don't have Second Amendment rights. Anthony Portantino helped outlaw open carry in CA.
Open carry? Sure, go right ahead, dummy.
Is 7:29 a troll or a hired PR hack?
7:54 -- I would vote for the third option, which is Jackass.
Thank God for Anthony Portantino to help protect us from jackasses like 7:29.
Anthony Portantino doesn't support the Bill of Rights. He's a Dem, though, so no surprise.
His equally Dem opponent, Gatto, supports the porno industry. Enjoy your choice,.
I don't need the porno industry to protect me when some Early Release dirt bag is breaking into my house at night, Einstein.
Gatto is also a gun grabber. Now go vote.
Dem in Cali means gun grabber. It's an oxymoron.
Write in the CAPS GUY.
Posse Comitatus--he shall be removed by the Posse to the most populated intersection of streets in the township and at high noon be hung by the neck, the body remaining until sundown as an example to those who would subvert the law. We will be there to insure justice.
OK. Now that's nuts.
I heard if you step onto the street you will be arrestedDo we have a permit? Is a permit required?
By your logic dog walking must be illegal in Sierra Madre. Or putting up realtor "Open House" signs for that matter.
When did walking on the streets become illegal, 7:58? Or sharing your opinions? Has the City Council passed any ordinances lately banning free speech or leaving your home to get some fresh air?
It was a question not an opinion. You seem to understand the question mark as you use it a lot.
People are entitled to their opinions, and to ask questions. You sure seem to be concerned about what people can and cannot do.
I guess I will have to vote to raise the UUT so that I can (i) replace the lost revenue resulting from this development in the name of starving children and (ii) pay for the massive SMPD overtime that will result from policing the geezers who show up for this protest. WHAT EVER HAPPENED TO ALL CAPS GUY?
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I hear that Dr. Agbi's consultant fee is a very reasonable $10,000. Much more affordable than the Raftelis boys.
You looked it up, eh 9:18?
As long as the protestors keep moving on the sidewalk and/or don't block the street they should be ok.
I miss CAPS GUY.
I've been in touch with him. He is rested and ready.
There is no sidewalk 9;56
I do recall reading the United States Constitution and seeking that sidewalk requirement for the free expression of thought and opinion. But I also read that it is OK if you stand on one foot.
It is a great day to be an American.
I believe a "rally" on public property requires a permit. I'm sure the group has looked into it. I hope the news outlets have been informed and will be there?
So anytime a group of people stood in Kersting Court with a sign urging people to support of oppose anything, a permit was required? If so, send the Police out now to pick up Terri Buchanan and Toni Moran.
Does anyone really believe the city would be stupid enough to try and interfere with people peacefully exercising their First Amendment rights? There would be an uproar.
A lot of pro-development people have totalitarian beliefs.
"I hearby uproariously protest the right of my neighbor to sell their land or build on their property!"
Its called the 1st Amendment. That still exists as far as I know.
8:24 - are you the Watchman Of Sierra Madre?
Development über alles.
First Amendment, right to peacefully assemble, part of the Bill of Rights. Same as the Second Amendment.duh
We need to be careful if we are to protect our open spaces. All the Monastery needs is 3 council members to vote on a zone change and they already have 2 1/2.
Harabedian and Goss want those hundreds of thousands of dollars in development impact fees the city would get. They have some unions to payoff.
When Goss was running for City Council he came out in favor of preserving the open space up there. I think he even had something on his website about him living on Sierra Meadows for awhile and all his kids playing the fields up there. I think Goss would be a no vote on the re-zoning. Harabedian is an unkown on this. Delmar and Arizmendi would vote no. Capoccia is the wild card. I would tend to think he would vote no. So that's 4-1 at best to deny the re-zoning. But at the next election, things could turn ugly quick. I hear that Buchanon is testing the water on a possible run. One of the same guys who got us in the One Carter mess. That's why we have to be vigilant.
There is nothing wild about Capoccia. In fact, he is entirely predictable. He will say he is against it and, in an effort to show how mature and fiscally responsible he is, reluctantly vote for it.
Maybe we can get Nancy Walsh to share some of her wisdom with us.
His act is getting old, that's for sure. One term is all he should have.
Don't forget the million dollars plus of development impact fees that the project would generate. The City Council and the staff would be licking their chops over that.
Yes. Most of which would go right into those platinum pension and benefit packages city employees believe are their right for working so hard. Sad to think they would sacrifice the monastery for their own personal gain. Then again, they don't live here, so why would they care?
Rule #1 - "It is always about the money.Rule #2 - "Reread Rule #1."
Remember all five ignored the holy ones pleas to put the language back into the GP the would open the door to a zone change.
Thanking the God that the Priests used to pray to, that horrible language was taken out of the General Plan because of, as the City Attorney explained, the build-out number and the historic drought. Why would we want to have limited say over a massive project up there. Thank goodness the Planning Commission and the City Council kept that language out.
Pearson and Father Higgins did get short shrift from the City Council. Just another couple of people at public comment with nothing much of interest to share.
Donkeys consume water.
Hopefully it is imported.
the residents need to grow up and get over it!God's servants have every right to sell any part of the property and all developers have the right to construct housing. If you do not like it, sell you old homes and move.there is a solution for all complainers!just think, if you think you have the right to play God... YOUR WRONG!!!
Property owners have rights. You can't just come in here with bulldozers and BS and do as you like.
So new property owners can do as they like, and those who have been paying taxes in Sierra Madre for years have no rights at all? Pretty dumb if you ask me.
We all have rights and we have laws that we abide by or seek to change. If the church wants to sell their property obviously they can. If the residents want to change zoning laws they can. You seem to have a strange belief that Gods' servants are God they are not anymore so than you or I are. They will obey the law as we all will. The best solution is compromise and dialog with each other.
11:18A-Really? Grow up? I agree, the monestary has the right to sell their property. Having been a part of Sierra Madre for so many years, you'd think they'd extend the courtesy of letting us know before hand. We have a right, as property owners to be concerned about whom they sell that property. Why you ask? Because most of us bought here to get away from the urban sprawl that is all around us. Environmentally, we can't afford 40 or 50 new homes. If they are really God's servents, they would understand that. There are nuns right now, fighting over the rights to their property that the Archdiocese wants to sell. The rights of a new owner are no better than ours. Playing God has never ben our intention. If you live here and don't like what we want for our town, then you move!
GET BEHIND A TOPIC YOU CAN WIN!MAKE CITY HALL REDUCE SPENDING AND REDUCE SALARIES & CADALLIC HEALTH PLANS!THE CAP GUY(S)
You don't support us caps guy, your uut measure (and you) can go fly a kite.
CAPS GUY is baaaaaaaaaaaaack.
11:24 AMGood Morning Elaine & Bruce. I am very sorry that we disagree with your statements! There must be a reduction in salaries and those Cadillac health plans. Remember the UUT Taxes were only temporary! So its time they must be gone! Maybe you could please provide a narrative report as to what you have spending our hard earned money on for the past 25 years!and why you have refused to improve the city's water infrastructure?Is city hall still buying bottled water or you still drinking the yellow water?we look forwarded to your replyTHE CAPS GUY!
Um, that was actually me. But let me level with you, the support for getting rid of UUT taxes in this town is luke warm at best. Many favor keeping it at 6%. And part of your problem is that you are a known advocate for slash and burn development. No matter what the consequences to the taxpayers and property owners whose votes you need to get your measure passed. That is the political reality. Whether you figure that out or not is up to you. You don't have much time left before you are written off altogether.
I hope the Passionists sell it to a developer then the land will be taxed and stalled in litigation for years while we reap the tax dollars.
Won't happen. The developer won't buy the land until the development project plan is approved. Just like the Kensington did.
New Urban West, the original developer, wrote this project off months ago. They saw all the community opposition and knew they would get nothing but years of trouble for their efforts.
Given the unruly nature of this discussion it is clear to me that SMPD will be out in force today collecting massive overtime. Otherwise it will be unsafe for Carol Canterberry to make her way past the unruly protestors into Father Higgins's development meeting.If matters really devolve it is my understanding that Father Higgins is prepared to bar the gates to his real estate development with a crucifix like Dustin Hoffman did to the church doors at the end the Graduate.
He will be splashing Holy Water on the troublemakers while intoning: "The power of Christ compels you to buy $1.2 million dollar McMansions." Don't expect any foot washing.
I take it there isn't any low income housing included in the Passionist's plans. Just like any other greedy developer they're going for the big money.
Wouldn't mean anything if it were, 12:34.Developers will build that if they have to sign for a one year covenant. One year.Then it's what the market will bear, Baby.
They will be a lot more than $1.2 million
I hear they are opening the Carter entrance to the Monastery today. Wonder why?
So the Realtors actually going won't have to show their shame.
Carter (east) side gate is still locked.
I'm confused. These Passionist people sound like they are in financial need and therefore need to sell the property to cover their costs/debt. What could a rally do?
Let the realtors know that there is opposition to 50 houses placed on the acreage. It is the last wilderness area in the city. We lose this battle and we lose our small town quality of life.
20 minutes to go. Crowd is building!
Count so far. 125 protesters, 5 realtors. Including slow growth superhero Judy Webb-Martin.
Plenty of cheese for all the realtors!
Is SMPD monitoring the protest?
Weird. Judy was one of the organizers of the street-lining protest when Carter was going to be sold to Maranatha.
Great group of people showed up at the protest/rally at the monestary. Not too many realtors. Thank you to all the people who gave their time to help keep Sierra Madre a small town.