Monday, December 18, 2017

A reader asks: "How many bids did the City get to bring the Library up to code?"

Photo: The Huerfano World Journal
Mod: I ran part of this email interview with Sierra Madre City Manager Gabe Engeland last Friday, but since it wasn't entirely finished at the time, I couldn't run all of it then. Does that make any sense? Hopefully not. So here it is in its entirety. The best answers are the ones you haven't seen yet. It all started with the following reader's question, which was posted more than once as a comment here.

"I get tired of asking but how many bids did the City get to bring the Library up to code? And, what is the amount of those bids. There has to be more than one bid to know anything at all. If it's just one bid how do we really know the truth?"

Here is how this entire exchange went:

Gabe Engeland: We’ve been asked this question a few times, here are the main elements which inform cost: electrical survey, engineering structural analysis, engineering and property condition assessment, ADA analysis and report, Library Facility Master Plan (this includes elements of ADA, accessibility, building condition, and structural analysis). The estimate for bids will be different based on the how many projects we bid at once and which items are urgent and which can be phased in overtime. The estimate from the "Master Plan" report is $1.398 million. Each of these should be available online in easy to access format soon.

The Tattler: Is there a similar "master plan" (or any kind of cost estimate) associated with moving the Library to the YAC and building any additional space? I believe the reason I get asked this is some people are analytical. I think they're uncomfortable with the survey card which is more intuitive. I can see why the city would want to build a consensus before getting into the actual numbers, but I suspect you will get a large number of no move results because some feel that without numbers they're being denied real information.

Gabe Engeland: The estimate(s) for the move will not be as in-depth as the Library Master Plan, but they do provide a good frame of reference for a range of what actual costs will be. In addition to the space and parking analysis we also know what the square footage cost for construction is and can use that to gauge what an addition/retrofit of the community center would cost.  As you stated, we don’t want to put a lot of money into a plan to move if the community desires the library to stay at its current location.

The Tattler: OK. But don't you think there are a lot of people who are not going to be comfortable with the survey if they can't see the numbers first? What should their opinion be based upon? Sierra Madre has a lot of residents from the managerial class. That is how many of them think.

Gabe Engeland: It's certainly an interesting question. People who respond to the survey will have to determine how they value the different types of information and data to inform their response.  I think Sierra Madre residents will be able to put a weight on a bid vs. an assessment vs. an analysis, along with several other factors, and will ultimately determine which of the options they believe to be best for current and future generations of Library users. I also agree that the "cost" analysis will be most important for some residents, but for others it will be location or their position on development or the opportunity to voice their desire to expand or reduce services. There certainly are a lot of variables to this decision. We are trying to compile and post everything we have so the information is available and easy to access.

The Tattler: Will it be there in time for the survey card?

Gabe Engeland: Yes.  We will post all of the information we have available in one location online and include the web address on the survey card.  We will also provide links to the web page on our social media and in our newsletter.

The Tattler: Good news. When will everything be on-line?

Gabe Engeland: Prior to anyone receiving the first survey!  We are still working on the FAQ and pulling some of the documents together.

Mod: You heard it here first. Just think of The Tattler as your 6th Councilmember. I'll post all of that rhythm just as soon as it shows up. And then we can talk about it.

sierramadretattler.blogspot.com

57 comments:

  1. Try Try again, what part of bidding and still coming back with the same results this library is way to expensive.

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  2. The main elements which inform cost: electrical survey, engineering structural analysis, engineering and property condition assessment, ADA analysis and report, Library Facility Master Plan (this includes elements of ADA, accessibility, building condition, and structural analysis). The estimate for bids will be different based on the how many projects we bid at once and which items are urgent and which can be phased in overtime. The estimate from the "Master Plan" report is $1.398 million.

    The above I pulled right from Mr. Engelands own words and one of the key elements is "The estimate for bids will be different based on the how many projects we bid at once". Different based on how many projects we bid at once, that is not the way to do this, of course it's going to cost a lot more by bidding on each project alone. That is not the way to do this up to code project, sorry but who is pushing for a cost on individual projects is all wrong and costly. This job needs to be done all at once with plans for a minimum of 2 preferably 3 general contractors to bid on completing everything at once. Completion will be quicker and costs will be less. Until you gut the building and look at exactly you need to go you are not getting the full picture and there will be problems that would cost a whole lot more on an individual project bases. Does anyone see what I'm talking about here?

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    Replies
    1. Yes. But what conclusions can you draw about whatever would happen at the YAC? That is where the really big mystery is found.

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    2. The purpose as I see it is to establish that fixing the Library would be difficult, complex and expensive. But the YAC option, funded by the property sale, would be clean, easy and almost pay for itself. Only a couple of wine tastings would be needed. That is the message. I do not believe it.

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    3. it's called a shell game.

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  3. I will take on any bets that it is less expensive to bring the existing building up to code than to build a new building. The only reason to build a new structure is for someones personal interests not preserving the existing Library and location. People are uninformed or are pushing their own agenda.

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    Replies
    1. The group who at one time was nicknamed the Downtown Dirts are always pro-development for the sake of civic enhancement - they look at this town and instead of seeing its charm and uniqueness, see it as shoddy and in need of lots of cosmetic surgery.

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    2. That is how I see it. The same people who want to move the Library and sell the lot also pushed for the DSP, One Carter development and the water bond fiasco. What could possibly go wrong?

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  4. when do the survey cards go out?

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  5. Only if residents attended City Council meetings.
    This Library discussion is old news; it will be tossed around, survey filled out, then back to square one. That's how things work in Sierra Madre.
    If only the Council had backbone to work out real options instead of "passing the buck", before having the Library discussion return back to Council; only to be discussed some more.

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  6. I like the new City Manager. He is taking on a lot of problems in an entirely new state with a different set of rules and a different set of attitudes from Colorado. He does not know of all the problems that Sierra Madre has experienced based on poor leadership that was influenced by groups with their own interests of making money and not preserving what we have. Mr. Engeland is a stand up guy that will do right for the town.

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    Replies
    1. It's a different kind of experience, having an intelligent adult in the city manager's position.

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    2. Gabe is trying very hard to finesse this Library move through. He is good at it, but he's in Sierra Madre now.

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  7. To get the best price and the job finished in the shortest amount of time you need to do all the work at the same time.

    #1 empty the contents out
    #2 remove everything that is going to be replaced
    #3 then do the structural
    #4 then the electrical and plumbing
    #5 put the drywall up
    #6 lay the flooring
    #7 paint everything that is going to be painted
    #8 install shelving, counters, desks and tables
    #9 put contents back in
    #10 open for business.

    This is not a piece meal job. For the best price this is a job that needs a General Contractor that coordinates the work with their subs. With at least two, preferably three bids the city can learn a lot and make the best choice of which contractor to use. Anything less than this is a waste of time and money. This example is a rough but you get the idea. With a good contractor a lot of the work can be done simultaneously which allows for the job to finish up ASAP.

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  8. The main elements that inform costs: how much is the city saving with contracting out to the YMCA vs having City Employees run the same or similar programs?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The City ran the pool and lost money. Waterworks pays rent to the city and still makes a tidy profit. Don't get it.

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  9. Where can I locate the information on the amount of money the city uses to keep the library doors open ?

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  10. Knowing the City, the General Contractor would have to be in a Union.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yep. The world's most expensive way to build a cement wheelchair ramp.

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  11. When did it get so expensive to go and check out a few books?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I hear late fines are being pushed up to $100 a day. Kidding.

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  12. First day of service; Amtrak High Speed Train derails near Tacoma, WA.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Amtrak train derails from bridge onto Interstate 5 near Olympia

      An Amtrak train derailed and fell off a bridge over Interstate 5 near Mounts Road between Lakewood and Olympia.

      Interstate 5 is completely closed in both directions and dozens of first responders are headed that way, according to the Washington State Department of Transportation.

      It’s not yet known if there are injuries, officials said.

      Amtrak tweeted that it was train No. 501 in its inaugural run that derailed.

      https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/train-derails-from-bridge-onto-interstate-5-near-olympia/

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  13. Is there a listing of programs being operated out of the Library?
    If the Library makes a move to the YAC , I understood from the Counsel presentation from the Library Trustees, saying there would be a reduction in services.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Many of the library programs are funded by the Friends of the Library. If that money had been to to good use ie. repairs and upkeep, this problem would not be a problem.

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  14. And here I thought Measure UUT was going to save the library...

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I have a bridge for you.

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  15. Wouldn't the ADA entrance be through the front doors?
    Reconfigure the librarians office area to meet the standards.
    There is a cement ramp outside that area for a second emergency exit.

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    Replies
    1. My guess is most likely. Otherwise the ADA folks would call that discrimination. Not equal access. Some of the ADA regulations are a joke, absurd, and a waste of money especially when the work must be done with the most expensive workers...UNIONS.

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  16. Thanks for sharing such a good thinking, piece of
    writing is good, thats why i have read it entirely

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. All your base are belong to us

      Delete
  17. Update on Amtrak derailment: Numbers are six deceased at this time.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Cost overruns will drive this project into the ground. Putting the second story on the Recreation Hall and calling it a YAC (Youth Activity Center) after the Parks and Recreation Department (name changed to Community Services Department) developed a Youth Master Plan (cribbing from Claremont's) and then no longer ran a program with city employees, but leased the facility out to the Y... it is no wonder than anyone in town with a memory dosen't expect much from this "process."

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. as an ex commissioner, I hear you loud and clear.

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    2. We need to see EVERYTHING before approving on the survey card. Especially the numbers.

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  19. Was the Library Master Plan included in the General Plan?
    If the General Plan was completed, then where does that leave the Library?
    Does that mean that the City of Sierra Madre submitted a unfinished update to Sacramento?

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  20. Wonder what Governor Jerry Brown will say about all the California Tax wasted dollars for his high speed train? Is this what he was promising for MTA down here?
    Cutting safety corners never pays off, if someone's life is cut short from that type of oversight.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. This was not a high speed train. It's recommended speed limit was 79 mph. The train was going 81 mph.

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    2. You are correct that the Amtrak Talgo equipment involved in the accident is not high speed, but the 81 mph figure is not reliable.Someone apparently found the transit.docs website. It showed the train at 81.2 mph moments before the crash The website isn't a continuous feed, it's updated periodically as such not reliable.

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    3. The speed limit in that section of thack is 30 mph in any case we don't know yet how fast the train was traveling...............

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    4. I got the 81 mph figure from KPCC this morning. This was not a high speed train as someone suggested here, though. It was a new rail line designed to save time.

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  21. 1:06pm. How much would the City save just closing the Library?

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  22. What is the top speed for the California Bullet Train?
    Under 80 mph the safety requirements are not so expensive.

    ReplyDelete
  23. off subject and maybe you talked about this all ready but walking down monticito today i noticed the overhanging deck and most of the rest have been removed , did the city win the lawsuit or did they just took it down

    ReplyDelete
  24. off subject walking down monticito today i noticed the overhanging deck had been removed did the city win the lawsuit or did they just take it down

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Looks that way. Funny how that one guy could do whatever he wanted with the Darling house, but those folks got hit with a legal wrecking ball. Maybe we should call it cheeseburger justice.

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  25. 1:47pm. M.Keith ran the Parks and Recreation department back then; now she helps out with the 4th of July Parade.
    No one cared about the expense of running programs back then, that's why programs had to be combined later down the road, when the city said; oh no, we are broke!

    ReplyDelete
  26. What's Taking place i'm new to this, I stumbled upon this I've found It
    positively helpful and it has helped me out loads. I'm hoping to give a contribution & assist other users like
    its aided me. Great job.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bow down to your lord and master

      Delete
    2. Thanks, Darth.

      Delete
  27. Stay classy, alt-right role models:

    details emerged Monday about the arrest of Track Palin, who at one point pleaded with his father to shoot him, according to a police affidavit. The document said his father, Todd, was brandishing a gun but refused to shoot.
    After his arrest Saturday, Track Palin, 28, was charged with first-degree burglary, fourth-degree assault and criminal mischief. He remains in custody. The police affidavit, contained in a court filing, describes a chaotic scene at the family's home in Wasilla, Alaska, when Palin confronted his father over a truck he wanted to pick up.

    ReplyDelete
  28. Sounds like Track Palin has an undiagnosed mental health issue.
    I believe the Military released him under PTSD this last year.
    What a heart breaking position for a parent (and child) to be under this type of duress.

    ReplyDelete
  29. Those library survey cards are just blank cheque to them by having City Hall spin this into political lingo of double talk to get what ever it really wants from this 'bait-an-switch' operation ran out of City Hall, there should be a law against this.

    ReplyDelete