Monday, July 30, 2018

Los Angeles Times Editorial: Was the 2016 election legitimate? It's now definitely worth asking the question

Mod: A timely and thought provoking editorial that addresses much of the nonsense we often hear in the comments from the colorful defenders of 2016 popular vote loser Trump.

Was the 2016 election legitimate? It's now definitely worth asking the question (Los Angeles Times link): We need to talk about a forbidden subject: the legitimacy of the current president. There’s been a code of silence around President Donald Trump’s shady victory in 2016. It’s one of those tiptoe-around-it things that the American family just doesn’t talk about. And with good reason. Whatever your politics, it’s perilous to question the soundness of an American election.

Raising the question of Trump’s legitimacy risks detonating a full-blown crisis of faith — kindling distrust not just in Trump, but also in the system that installed him.

But fear of facing the legitimacy question has not stopped Americans from harboring profound doubts, if only “deep down in places you don't talk about at parties,” in Aaron Sorkin’s phrasing from “A Few Good Men.”

As more and more facts about Trump’s incongruous victory emerge, the doubts gnaw harder — and grow harder to ignore.

A nation devoted to majority rule has a minority president. Who squeaked into office on an electoral college technicality. Against most data projections. Using dark money. Using voter suppression. Using Russian disinformation.

And, most chilling of all, with a massive assist from the Russian military, which not only hacked the Democrats, but also hacked voting software and a voting-system manufacturer.

Some people were motivated to vote for Trump because they believed Russian lies about Hillary Clinton’s health or email. But at least they got to cast their votes, and have them counted.

Others, many who planned to vote against Trump, were kept from the ballot entirely. In Wisconsin, as Mother Jones has reported, discriminatory ID laws prevented 45,000 eligible voters from participating in the election, including 23,000 in two heavily Democratic counties. Trump won Wisconsin by 22,000 votes.

The attorney general of Wisconsin, Brad Schimel, even boasted recently that Trump won Wisconsin chiefly because tens of thousands of eligible voters were turned away. We’ve long known that Russian hackers attempted to break into the nation’s voter databases. But NBC reported this year that they succeeded. Senior intelligence officials said that Russia compromised seven states, including California, Florida, Illinois and Texas.

There are other good reasons to ask questions about the election. In Florida, exit polls on election day had Clinton winning by 1.3 % of the vote. When the votes were tallied, Trump beat her by 1.2%.

None of this data is conclusive. But it absolutely does not suggest that American citizens should shut up, forget it, and will away all the evidence that something’s rotten in our electoral system. If it didn’t hurt your candidate this time, next time it might.

When, in 1974, President Gerald Ford pardoned former President Richard Nixon, he sounded noble. He claimed that to put Nixon on trial would cost the nation its newfound “tranquility.” Why rock the boat by bringing Nixon, who’d already been subject to so much “degradation,” to trial?

Why indeed. Ford was arguing for repression, when oh, say, maybe justice might have been the surer route to real tranquility.

He was telling the nation what abuser apologists tell victims. Don’t press charges. Think of all your abuser has suffered. It’s classier to move on.

Likewise, for years, Justice Antonin Scalia insisted that Americans must move on from Bush vs. Gore, the highly unusual 2000 Supreme Court decision that gave the presidency to George W. Bush. Scalia would get testy when asked questions, snapping at audiences: “Come on, get over it.”

Bush vs. Gore became the case that must not be named. Don’t interrupt Scalia’s tranquility.

Those who kept asking were also called bad sports, still sulking about the election. A protester around the time of the Supreme Court decision mocked those who’d voted the Gore-Lieberman ticket using Gore’s campaign logo. It read: “Sore Loserman.”

Sound familiar? Trump has been desperately trying to get voters to “move on” from the 2016 presidential election and to get special counsel Robert S. Mueller III to “move on” from the Russia investigation.

He’s also shouted into the wind that, against all evidence, the Russia investigation is a plot by sore-loser Democrats.

Aw. Hasn’t Trump suffered enough?

No. It’s the American people — of every stripe — who have suffered, seeing our democracy in such devastating disarray. And the remedy for that suffering is not to suck it up, pretend everything’s fine, and let criminals hold on to ill-gotten power and money.

The remedy is to keep speaking up, work for electoral reform to restore free and fair elections, and of course let justice run its course in the form of the investigations into Russian interference and Trumpland complicity.

In the meantime, typesetters, cue up your asterisks. You might need them.

1919 World Series*

2016 presidential election*

sierramadretattler.blogspot.com

84 comments:

  1. If you study the history of how dictators have taken over countries with 'false-news' & 'lies' then no doubt you have drawn a like similar conclusion of what and how these dictators rose to power, Communist China, North Korea, Communist Russia along with a handful of Latin countries. Donald went swimming in the deep end and now he finds he can not swim with the big boys & girls either - no one wants to see, hear or play with him any more in 2018.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rumor has it he did some pee swimming with the girls

      Delete
  2. Wasn't there some question of Russian involvement that time Clinton had a weak spell?

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  3. You people will be asking the same thing about the 2020 election, not to mention the coming midterms. There is no legitimate alternative, so you argue about legitimacy. Give it a break.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. You sound like one of the guys the LA Times describes. How does it feel to be a cliche'?

      Delete
    2. How does it feel that after a year and a half that nothing has happened, and nothing will happen. Snark is not a politically appealing alternative in the vast majority of this great Nation. The US is thankfully not California both economically and politically and this seems to be very hard for liberals to understand. Legitimate electoral college victories must be illegitimate as the politics don't work in the SGV. Right?

      Delete
    3. 5 guilty pleas, and a boatload of indictments isn't enough for you? And when did Trump ever get a majority of anything? He lost the popular vote, and his current approval numbers are in the 30s. Quit smoking the Fox crack and come up for air, scuba diver.

      Delete
    4. Electoral college victories were all legitimate until 2016...lmao

      Delete
    5. The messy reality of Donald Trump’s poll numbers
      He’s playing a strong hand, poorly.
      https://www.vox.com/explainers/2018/7/5/17531360/donald-trump-poll-numbers-popularity

      Delete
    6. How does it feel to have 30 years of investigating the Clintons and zero crimes found?

      Delete
  4. Strange time we are all into, since a 'mad hatter' is running America now part pervert and criminal all rolled into one large excrement. There are other uses for him such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feces

    ReplyDelete
  5. We are living in truly frightening times, including the 36% who still support Trump. What is even scarier is the do nothing Congress who is allowing this to happen. I'm still reading posts about "crooked Hillary." Why is she crooked? I don't get it. Coca Cola is raising it's prices because of the increased cost of steel - thank you Mr. "I'm a Tough Guy (but don't understand basic economics) Imposing Tariffs" Trump. Looks like the chickens are coming home to roost.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Might want to check your facts...no steel in coke cans (aluminum), but don't let that stand in the way of your talking points.

      Delete
    2. No steel in factories and machinery that produce, bottle, can, and deliver Coke, right 9:35? No tariffs on aluminum, right 9:35?

      Facts are so inconvenient for the traitorous class.

      Delete
  6. 7:31 - You make the case for the cartoon about the Trump supporter.

    ReplyDelete
  7. No 7:00, that has never been mentioned. Good try!

    ReplyDelete
  8. Here's a new lunatic argument deranged Trump fans can start parroting.

    Giuliani: 'Collusion is not a crime'

    President Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani on Monday dismissed the investigation into suspected collusion between the Trump campaign and Russia, saying that collusion is “not a crime.”

    “I have been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime,” Giuliani said on “Fox & Friends.”

    “Collusion is not a crime.”

    The president’s attorney maintained that his client is “absolutely innocent” and said that the recently released tapes of conversations between Trump and his former lawyer Michael Cohen prove that the president “didn’t do anything wrong.”

    “I don't even know if that's a crime, colluding about Russians,” Giuliani said. “You start analyzing the crime — the hacking is the crime. The president didn't hack. He didn’t pay them for hacking.”

    http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/399461-giuliani-collusion-is-not-a-crime

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Rudy Giuliani said "Michael Cohen was warned to keep his mouth shut".

      Uh.. isn't that witness tampering?

      Delete
  9. Zero proof Trump "colluded" with Russians. Plenty of proof Crooked Hillary did including payoffs to the Clinton Foundation. Trump has been far worse on the Russians than Obama or any other US president.

    Who knew that $100,000 in Facebook ads could swing a national election that cost almost $2 billion. That's like claiming 25 cents can swing a Sierra Madre election. Laughable.

    The goal of the Russians is to sow dissension in the USA. You are helping the Russians.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Kookoo Trump Boy is deep in the weed bag this morning.

      Delete
    2. 8:24 is upset because his "Trump 2020" banner hasn't arrived from China yet.

      Delete
    3. 8:24 don't worry, you may be one of the few on this page that doesn't suffer from TDS...

      Delete
    4. TDS = Trump Denial Syndrome.

      Also called "Looking at the world through orange glasses."

      Delete
  10. MAGA, our household will be casting our votes for President Trump again in 2020.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. How did you get your dog registered to vote?

      Delete
    2. I'm sick of this good economy and rising 401k balances. I sure wish 44 was Pres so we could hear about the jobs that aren't coming back. LOLOLOLOL

      Delete
    3. Did you get your Chinese made Trump 2020 flag yet?

      Delete
    4. Trump is benefiting from Obama’s rescue and growth of the economy. Trump has done nothing to help the economy and everything to hurt it.

      Repubs cause economic crashes: Reagan/Bush, W

      Dems save and grow economies: Clinton, Obama.

      Tariffs are the beginning of the next crash. Saber rattling with Iran causes higher oil prices, which helps Russia. Economic crash plus a cash flush Russia will enable Trump’s Russian masters to buy US and other Western assets cheap, cheap, cheap. That is the plan.

      Delete
    5. Prepare for the biggest stock-market selloff in months, Morgan Stanley warns
      https://www.marketwatch.com/story/prepare-for-the-biggest-stock-market-selloff-in-months-morgan-stanley-warns-2018-07-30

      Delete
    6. Glad you ain’t my neighbor. Good job brainwashing your household.

      Delete
    7. 9:26 a little whacked and misinformed

      Delete
  11. 7:51am. Cocoa cola and steel? Your daily beverages of soda and Starbucks coffee are increasingly taxed?
    How does steel fit into your diet?

    ReplyDelete
  12. Our dog registered the same way as all Clinton supporters registered, with a Russian boost through social media.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'll get back to you if that ever starts making sense to me.

      Delete
    2. "President's lawyer confirms he colluded with Russia, claims only the hacking was a crime."

      Julie of Fox & Friends: “I don't even know if that's a crime -- colluding about Russians. You start analyzing the crime -- the hacking is the crime. The president didn't hack!”

      UPDATE FROM TPM:
      So Julie Just Admitted that Top Trump Brass Met to Plan for the Russian Dirt Meeting Two Days in Advance and Cooperating Witness Rick Gates was in the Meeting.
      https://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/rudys-big-admission

      Makes sense that a clown president would have a clown lawyer.

      Delete
  13. No longer LA Times, now El Segundo Times.

    ReplyDelete
  14. $32.6T, the new 2020 Presidential battle cry for the Democrats!
    Medicare and Welfare for all.
    The price tag for "free" stuff being pushed by the I can't believe she lost Party, thanks Bernie.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What are the chances you receive Social Security, and take advantage of Medicare? Like about 99.5%?

      Delete
    2. 9:19, paid payroll taxes for 40+ years for both, duhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

      Delete
    3. So you do take government handouts. Are you a welfare queen?

      Delete
  15. I like borscht.

    ReplyDelete
  16. Q) What kind of lawyer secretly tapes his own client?

    A) One whose client is a pathological liar.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. One who wants to be disbarred.

      Delete
    2. Problem is, big mouth Rudy spoke in public about the tape. He outed the president. After that it was public record.

      Delete
  17. "There was somebody else in the room"?

    Trump and Guiliani are trying to clean up the mess in Trump Tower.

    Michael Cohen says there were others in the room when the "Russian meeting" was being discussed with Donald Trump. He knew. He has been lying all along.

    Why all the panic? Does Mueller have the same evidence from another "person in the room'? Rudy and Trump seem to think so?

    The lies that they are now creating are cannibalizing themselves. They make no sense. They know that Cohen's charge can be corroborated.

    And it is scaring the hell out of them.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The problem with lies ... eventually they become so heavy, they begin to collapse on each other.

      This seems to be the point we have reached with Trump and Guiiani. They can no longer keep them organized. They seem to be contradicting or backtracking on everything they have said in the past. Deception and lies seems to be their default position.

      Delete
  18. ***BREAKING NEWS POLL***WI GOV Evers (Democrat) 48% Walker (All Russia People's Front) 41%
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2018/governor/wi/wisconsin_governor_walker_vs_evers-6606.html

    The Big Rat is going down.

    ReplyDelete
  19. Live on the Air: Fox News, Rudy Giuliani on the record, out of the 183 recorded phone calls, 12 involving conversations with Mr. Trump; no COLLUSION.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Well, if it was on Fox News, and Rudy Giuliani said it, why it simply must be true!

      Have they delivered your unicorn yet?

      Delete
  20. Poor Giuliani...he used to fight organized crime alongside his fellow republican Mueller. Now he’s laughably squandered whatever cred he might have had just like his buddy Bernard Kerik, and will go down in flames and history as a crooked sellout.

    ReplyDelete
  21. A growing body of powerful circumstantial evidence suggests Trump may have not only known about in advance about the Trump Hotel spy love nest, but attended—by speakerphone—the June 2016 Trump-Russia meeting. Media reports suggest this fits his modus operandi.

    ReplyDelete
  22. If you don't win....you scream foul, unfair, rigged election. Left and right are both guilty.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. That’s a bs fake argument

      Delete
    2. If you get a trophy and a safe place to nap, will you by ok?

      Delete
    3. What are the dangerous places to nap?

      Delete
  23. Muller and his buds, includes RINO's are all on the government dole.
    Two years and and counting, reduced to tweets, Mr Muller where is the collusion?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Open your eyes, fool.

      Delete
    2. Reduced to tweets? Mueller hasn’t issued any public statements except for the single one the day he accepted the job.

      He’s investigating Russian interference, of which collusion is one potential byproduct

      Go change your diaper!

      Delete
    3. Mueller, Comey, Rosenstein... all lifelong republicans.

      5 of trump’s ‘buds’ already pleaded guilty

      But you can keeping believing him. If u want

      Sucka!

      Delete
    4. Not all Republicans are traitors. Just the Trump ones.

      Delete
  24. The No Trumpers and TDS minions just can not understand that a non Politician has negoaited this country back to being great, using some of the words of FLOTUS #44, "for the first time in my life i am proud of my Country", i have always been proud.
    Why the TDS and RINOS followers have difficulty wanting the best for the United States is frankly, beyond my understanding.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. He's going to jail, Maynard. All the Russian state propaganda in the world will not stop that.

      Delete
    2. Clearly much is frankly beyond your understanding; including grammar and meaningful debate.

      Delete
    3. TDS - Trump Denial Syndrome.

      Delete
    4. Yeah yo, saying ‘TDS’ and RINO’, is real hep to the jive and ‘woke’. At least is was for 5 minutes.

      Delete
  25. Lots of Russians and traitors here today rearranging the deck chairs on heavily damaged SS Putin/Trump 2016 while USS Mueller fires at will.

    ReplyDelete
  26. What a blessing ...

    NFL Places National-Anthem Gag Order on Cowboys Owner Jerry Jones

    The National Football League has told Jerry Jones he can no longer speak out about players’ police-brutality on-field protests during the playing of the national anthem, the Dallas Cowboys owner told several news outlets. Days earlier, Jones said his players would have to stand for the anthem, and Executive Vice President Stephen Jones, Jerry’s son, implied players could be removed from the team if they don’t comply. Reporter Mike Doocy said Cowboys staff told him he was not allowed to ask Jones about the national anthem. Doocy canceled his interview, but several reporters who interviewed Jones seemed to follow the rule. Jones, who donated $1 million to President Donald Trump’s inauguration committee, has been outspoken on the issue. Players began kneeling during the national anthem in 2016 to protest racial inequality and police brutality.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/nfl-places-national-anthem-gag-order-on-cowboys-owner-jerry-jones?ref=home

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. No one needs to hear the anthem at a ball game anyway. Weird how that false sense of patriotism got woven into it.

      Delete
  27. Lol, yeah like million dollar prepubescent football players have racial inequality!
    Go peddle your crybaby spoiled overrated ball skils anywhere but the USA.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They're predominantly black and that is why you are upset. Trump's appeal to dumbass white knuckleheads is all about the race thing.

      Delete
    2. Prepubescent?

      You’re a pedophile

      Get the hell out of here

      Delete
    3. Meanwhile, in Trumpland:

      Parking officer calls one-legged black man the N-word as he tickets him for using a handicap space. The city of Brockton, Massachusetts is being sued after a parking control officer used the n-word while ticketing a black man with an amputated leg for parking in a space reserved for people with disabilities

      Delete
  28. Mexico Announces That it Will Fund Trump's $30 Billion Boarder Wall

    The Mexican Government just announced that it will pay a total of $30 Billion to the US government, earmarked to construct Trump's boarder wall on the United States southern boarder with Mexico.

    The Mexicans will pay the $30 billion in installments. It will send $1 to the United States Treasury every year for 30 billion years, starting on October 1, 2018.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Hahahahaha


      Remember when trump promised it was only gonna cost $4b?

      Dumb trumptards!

      Delete
  29. Viva Mexico!!! Gracias.

    ReplyDelete
  30. 11:35am ouch, you have that always want to be right attitude.
    That's why that Nasty Woman lost her election!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. There is no comment at 11:35am. Do you have any other brilliant contributions to make?

      Delete
    2. Maybe a ‘maga’ in all caps?

      That would be cool. Like ‘TDS’ is so cool.

      Delete
    3. Anyway, pal, 11:35 was so long ago. If you have to reply to it in a new thread you’ve already lost.

      Like trump did.
      By 3 million votes

      Delete
  31. Trump can loose again by 3 million votes, as long as he remains President the United States.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Loose?

      Well, he does have the illiterate monkey vote locked up.

      Delete
    2. 6:32, you live on a farm in the south?

      Delete
    3. Trump is definitely loose. Loose with facts and loose mediocre looking strippers

      Delete

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